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George D
Moderator
Premium Member
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 Posted - 02/07/2005 : 09:50:53 AM
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A couple days ago the Dutchman posted a picture of a welding shop in the Prototype Structures for Modeling topic. Well, it looked interesting and I have a place on my module where it will work, so I made a drawing of it using QuickCAD. The more I got into it, the more I liked it and with a little encouragement from Bruce I decided to build one and Bruce is going to build one too.
Here are the pictures that Bruce posted:
Here's a scanned copy of the drawings. If you want a copy, I can email anyone the original CAD documents or JPEG scans if you can't open CAD files. The JPEG will not be to scale, but I have a version that has all the key dimensions.
I'm assuming the side walls are identical and the back only has a back door. Bruce is going to see if he can get a picture of the back. He's confirmed that the roof is corrugated steel and front awning is metal. The window I chose for the side walls is a Grandt Line # 5009, which is a 12 pane window just like the prototype. However, they have three panes across and the prototype has four panes across. After searching for front door ideas, Bruce suggested using Tichy door 8053. It seems to be the closest of any commercial door that we can find, so I ordered a set. I picked a Tichy door, #8032, which is a four panel wood door, for the back.
I still have a few sheets of Holgate & Reynolds brick sheeting, so that's what I'll use for the walls. At this point I think I'll back the brick sheet with 0.030 styrene.
I drew the plans based on the shape of the building and guessed at all the dimensions. When it came time to lay out the side walls on the brick sheet, the dimensions didn't work. The dimensions have to be in brick size - 36 bricks long (22' 9") not 24' as I show in the plans. By using a number divisible by 4, the centerline of each window is easy to figure - 9 bricks apart. The same applies to the number of courses between the ground and the base of the windows (12). Of course, this is based on Holgate & Reynolds; another brand of brick sheeting may be different.
The first problem I'm running into is what to do about the window sills. They aren't clear in the pictures, but I assume they are a row bricks on edge. I need ideas on how to handle this?
I'll post some pictures of the side walls when I finish cutting them.
George
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| Fly Army |
Country: USA
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MikeC
Administrator
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 10:15:17 AM
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This is going to be a fun thread to follow.  Looking forward to updates, George and Bruce!
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jkristia
Engine Wiper
Premium Member
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 11:11:04 AM
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Looks like a great project. Are you going to have the doors open like they are in the picture?
Jesper
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George D
Moderator
Premium Member
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 1:01:02 PM
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Jesper,
As you can see, there are tons of details inside, so some of the inside has to be exposed. Bruce said the Tichy doors are one piece units but can easily be cut open, so I plan to have at least one door open on mine.
George
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wvrr
Fireman
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 1:15:21 PM
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Looks like a fun project, George and Bruce!
Chuck
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Dutchman
Administrator
Premium Member
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 1:39:07 PM
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George,
I made a return visit today and got the answers to most of the open questions. I will post the pictures later, but I want to let you know about the windows. (1) yes, the left side and right side are identical, (2) the top of the window opening is indeed a piece of iron, and (3) the bottom of the window opening is a piece of concrete or stone that is only a little thicker than a brick. The pictures will show what I mean. Anyway, that is easier to model than a brick sill.
(The inside of the building is indeed brick.)
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| Bruce |
Edited by - Dutchman on 02/07/2005 1:40:13 PM |
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George D
Moderator
Premium Member
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 4:37:33 PM
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Bruce, that's good news on the window sills. I played with a piece of brick sheet and here's what I came up with. It's OK, but a thin slab of stone or concrete would look better and, as you said, be easier to make.
I'm also glad to hear the two sides are the same - notice I've already cut out the questionable one. I'm sure, however, I'll be cutting a wall or two twice before I'm done.
George
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paulbrockatsf
Fireman
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 4:42:13 PM
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Bruce & George,
Thanks for the photos & introducing this structure.
George,
Thanks for the plans.
This is a great building that will fit into most layout plans. Look forward to following this thread.
Paul
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Dutchman
Administrator
Premium Member
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 6:36:50 PM
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OK, George, here are the new photos.
Here is a closeup of the window. You can see the metal above, the concrete sill below. Do you think that the upper part of the window tilts out?
The rear of the building. No door, just the chimney sticking out a bit. It looks like it had been painted black or tarred in the past. The roof overhang comes out as far as the chimney. Neat fence on the far side. Sorry, the sun was right in the lens.
Here is a closeup of the front overhang. Notice that it is corrugated, and is covered underneath as well.
Now for the latest problem. The front overhang is corrugated, and the roof is corrugated, but the roof is a much coarser corrugation. Campbell roofing looks about right for the overhang, but what do we use for the roof? Notice that you can see the wood roof showing beneath the metal roofing. Notice also that they overlaped the roof material down the wall and nailed it to the subroof. Then they tarred over the nail holes. I did see joints in the roof material. It looks like about three sheets cover the roof front to back. I don't know how wide they are. I am leaving this picture as a link since it is a bit wide.
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I think that I will still put a door in the rear of the building. If anyone has a good idea for the roof material, jump right in.
George, what do you think? Did I solve more problems than I caused?
BTW, I think that your brick sill solution would look fine also.
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| Bruce |
Edited by - Dutchman on 02/07/2005 6:39:30 PM |
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k9wrangler
Engineer
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 8:42:50 PM
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It appears the windows are the type that the two top rows of panes pivot with the axis being the line between the two rows of windows with the top going in and the bottom going out, inside there may be a metal piece at the bottom of the second row frame with notches in it that hook over the metal frame top for the bottom row of windows to adjust the opening. It would be much like the piece Athearn uses on old reefers to keep the hatches open. You can see there is a wider metal frame between the botton and second rows of windows where there is an overlap to keep wind out in cold weather.
If I ever could figure out how to use QuickCAD I'd draw a picture, not enough hours in the day to learn it.
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Karl Scribner
Sunfield Twp. Michigan
H.M.F.I.C
Kentucky Southern Railway
The Spartan Line |
Edited by - k9wrangler on 02/07/2005 8:45:07 PM |
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k9wrangler
Engineer
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 8:53:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by George D
A couple days ago the Dutchman posted a picture of a welding shop in the Prototype Structures for Modeling topic.
I drew the plans based on the shape of the building and guessed at all the dimensions.
George
A good way to make an rather close educated guess on dimensions of a building is to interpolate dimensions of known items that are of a universal size, take the doors or maybe the two five gallon plastic drywall mud buckets inside the door. Find out the dimension of the 5 gallon pail, measure that in your photos and then use that as a known measure to make a SWAG* on the unknowns.
In an aerial photo interpretation course I took we did that by measuring the shadows of known items like a one story building is 99% of the time x feet tall, measure the shadow of one in the photo then measure something else and make a pretty fair assumption as to it's size.
*Scientific Wild A$$ed Guess...
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Karl Scribner
Sunfield Twp. Michigan
H.M.F.I.C
Kentucky Southern Railway
The Spartan Line |
Edited by - k9wrangler on 02/07/2005 8:56:47 PM |
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George D
Moderator
Premium Member
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 9:03:55 PM
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Thanks for the detailed pictures Bruce. It does look like the top eight panes of the window opens from the top. You're starting to confuse me with facts. I was so much more comfortable with assumptions. 
I just looked at the Tichy site and they have a 25 pane industrial window (#8133) that looks like it might work, that is if they have a typo in their description. The picture is of a 20 pane window. Here's the site: http://www.tichytraingroup.com/index.php?page=view_product.php&id=424&category=Masonry+Windows The top two rows of panes would have to be removed and a piece of framing added to the top.
I'm back to the drawing board. I'll check in later.
Karl, I based my dimension guessing on the assumption that the doors were 7' tall. Do you think the proportions in my drawings are OK?
George
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Dutchman
Administrator
Premium Member
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 9:45:35 PM
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George,
I think that Tichy had a window that tilted open at Springfield. I think that they made it for Don at MicroScale Models. Chuck might remember better (being a young guy). However, I think that they were too big. I might just stick with the Grant-Line windows.
I'm still thinking about that corrugated material on the roof, and what to use for it.
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| Bruce |
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George D
Moderator
Premium Member
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 9:47:43 PM
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Guess what, I found a set of the Tichy 8133 windows in my Tichy bin. I think I picked them up at Springfield. The label on the package says it's a 25 pane window. I know I'm pushing the limit of my fingers and toes, but I only count 20 panes. I think they can be modified to give us a window that has the top two rows of windows that open out and it has four panes across instead of three.
Here's the modification I'm thinking about:
Here are the drawings of the sides, first with the original 5009 windows and second with the modified 8133 windows. Compare them with the pictures. Which best matches the prototype?
Bruce, I guess I'm going to have to change the back wall. It looks like the chimney is partially inside the building - interesting. I see what you mean about the front corrugation. I'm stumped on that one too. I notice the peeling paint on the wood substructure for the roof and the stacks of boxes inside the windows - nice details.
George
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Dutchman
Administrator
Premium Member
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 9:56:22 PM
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George,
I bought one of the large sample packs from Tichy at the show. I will check to see how many 8133's there are in there.
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| Bruce |
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Country: USA
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Bbags
Administrator
Premium Member
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Posted - 02/07/2005 : 10:17:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by k9wrangler
It appears the windows are the type that the two top rows of panes pivot with the axis being the line between the two rows of windows with the top going in and the bottom going out, inside there may be a metal piece at the bottom of the second row frame with notches in it that hook over the metal frame top for the bottom row of windows to adjust the opening. It would be much like the piece Athearn uses on old reefers to keep the hatches open. You can see there is a wider metal frame between the botton and second rows of windows where there is an overlap to keep wind out in cold weather.
If I ever could figure out how to use QuickCAD I'd draw a picture, not enough hours in the day to learn it.
IF I were a betting man which I am not I think that the above explanation is right on the mark.
They could then be modeled in an open position which would look very nice.
I am not sure what window you would use to do this.
I have seen these on factories and they are just as explained where the bottom 3 panes do not open but the upper two rows do pivot where middle 3 panes are outside the structure and the top 3 panes are inside the structure.
Bruce,
If you used Campbells for the overhang and the roof has bigger corrugations maybe some corrugated roofing from O scale would work.
At least it would be larger.
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John Bagley
Modeling the Alaska Railroad in HO in Wildwood Georgia. |
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