| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
DennisT
New Hire
|
 Posted - 11/13/2004 : 12:38:58 AM
|
|
I know; I'm full of questions lately. I guess I am coming out of modeling-retirement. Today I dusted my LGB (red) disconnects with some old Floquil (yeah, the toxic stuff - was up-wind in the carport) grimy black. Used the old Badger 350 for the first time in...won't admit that. Worked fine. Question is, from the discussions here, I seem to be picking up that a lot of you use acrylics for everything....brushing, weathering.....and >airbrushing< ?? I am referring to the Apple Barrel/Delta Creamcoat stuff. As I dump/use up the last of my Floquil, am I just as well off with the acrylics? (which I have purchased) I realize this involves a lot of personal preference and personal success, so I am not expecting real specific commentary. Thoughts would be appreciated, though. Thanks.
|
| Dennis in the nearly deserted prairies of Eastern Washington state wheatlands |
Country: USA
| Posts: 30 |
|
|
Gerry
Engine Wiper
|
Posted - 11/13/2004 : 01:54:23 AM
|
Dennis --
The guys here just got me into the "craft acrylics" a short time ago, so I'm a little afraid of trying to airbrush them myself.
I really do like Polly Scale paints, tho. They airbrush just great. If I have 15 jars of Floquil, I've got 45 jars of Polly Scale -- use it for everything.
The only thing I still use Floquil paints for is airbrushing styrene -- they seem to form a tougher skin, maybe because they may etch the surface a bit.
|
Gerry (MMR #346)
 |
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 259 |
 |
|
|
MikeC
Administrator
Premium Member
|
Posted - 11/13/2004 : 10:52:28 AM
|
Dennis, I airbrush with craft acrylics, as well as Polly, and have no trouble with them. As with any paint, they need to be properly thinned, and your airbrush needs to be thorougly cleaned immediately after you've finished. Some brands (Ceramcoat, for example) tend to have more finely ground pigments and seem to spray easier and with a smoother finish than others (Folk Art, for example).
For thinner, you can use distilled water, windshield washer fluid, Polly Airbrush Thinner, or Ceramcoat Acrylic Thinner (expensive stuff compared to the others just mentioned!). I would avoid ordinary tap water as a thinner, however, because mineral content - even in filtered water - can cause problems.
TomPM has lots of experience spraying craft acrylics. He uses it on all of his custom painted rolling stock. If you dig into the "back pages" of the Model Photography Forum, Tom has posted photos of several of his projects along with a list of materials/colors used and a description of how he did it.
Two other things that just came to mind: Avoid using any Folk Art paint that specifically says "Artists Pigments" on the label. Those paints are very heavily pigmented, almost like tube paints, and are difficult to thin properly for spraying. All the rest of the Folk Art line is fine, and I believe Tom uses them frequently.
Also, craft acrylics are fast drying. Make sure you clean your brush immediately after using them. They seem to set and dry quicker than Polly or Floquil. It's not a panic situation, but don't let your airbrush set for a few minutes before cleaning it. Something that does make a good cleaner if you get a stubborn spot of acrylic on the nozzle or on the needle is Polly's "ELO." Just soak the airbrush parts in ELO for a few minutes and that takes care of the problem.
I'm sure Tom will have lots of good advice on this subject also!
|
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm a busy man. I have a railroad to run.
Visit the Central Missouri & Southern
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 21584 |
|
|
|
Peterpools
Engineer
Premium Member
|
Posted - 11/13/2004 : 4:56:56 PM
|
Dennis
I've been painting models with airbrushes for over thirty years and in the early days, always used enamel paints. The old Poly S was tough to work with back then. These days, I brush paint and airbrush with nothing but acrylics. When air brushing...I thin with isopropyl alcohol and have very consistant results. I'm not very fussy with what brand of acrylic paint I use, whether hobby or craft paint. I tend to thin everything basically the same way: thin with isopropyl alcohol until the paint just wants to run off my mixing rod - glass or stainless steel - never wood or plastic. When airbrushing light colors, I always use either a light gray or white primer, then followed by numerours thin color coats.
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 12301 |
|
|
|
Gerry
Engine Wiper
|
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 01:13:12 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Peterpools
until the paint just wants to run off my mixing rod - glass or stainless steel - never wood or plastic.
Interesting that you say this, Peter. How come no wood or plastic?
|
Gerry (MMR #346)
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 259 |
|
|
|
Peterpools
Engineer
Premium Member
|
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 10:22:26 AM
|
Gerry
Over the years, I found that by using either a glass rod ( care is needed ) or stainless steel mixing rod, the thinned and mixed paint will begin to drip off the mixing rods almost always in the same, properly thinned consistancy. I never use wood, because the wood tends to soak up the paint and 'hangs' onto it. I stopped using plastic when I use to paint with lacquer. Some of the lacquer based paints would actually attack the plastic and it just turned into a pain. I'm sure other materials would work equally as well but these are just my experiences. My all time favorite is Model Master Paint. It airbrushes beautifully but I try to stay away from anything that causes an oder or leaves a smell. My railroad is in the den and I work on the kitchen table, so I have to meet everyone half way to keep peace.
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 12301 |
|
|
|
Peterpools
Engineer
Premium Member
|
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 10:30:15 AM
|
Dennis,
One last thought on airbrushing. I tend to be a bit lazy and do not completely clean out my airbrush ( Badger ) after each color. I run a lot of alcohol through it and then move on to the next color. If I am painting with a water based paint and then for some crazy reason, need to switch to a different type of paint, then I always thoroughly clean out the gun. If not, you wont believe the gooey mess that forms inside the gun. When you finish an airbrushing session, always thoroughly clean the gun, with the appropiate thinner and a pipe cleaner.
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 12301 |
|
|
|
MikeC
Administrator
Premium Member
|
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 11:05:09 AM
|
Peter, I find it interesting that you use alcohol for your thinner. What ratio of alcohol to paint do you use with acrylics?
My experience with brush painting/staining alcohol-thinned acrylics was never good. Because of the evaporation rate of the alcohol, the paint seemed to coagulate very quickly and become a gooey, unusable mess within a few minutes. As a result, I never considered using the mix in my airbrushes.
|
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm a busy man. I have a railroad to run.
Visit the Central Missouri & Southern
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 21584 |
|
|
|
Peterpools
Engineer
Premium Member
|
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 12:53:29 PM
|
Mike
I've been using alcohol as a thinner for all water based paints since the mid 1970's. I never was really happy with using water, whether tap or distilled. The 70% isopropyl alcohol as always worked for me and i've never really had an evaperation problem. My house is kept pretty much on an even keel all year long..around 70F and a humifier is hooked up to the hot air heat system. The humidity in the house is relatively constant...not to humid and not to dry. Great for the arthritis. This kind of takes the humidity factor out of the equation. I do NOT like to paint with a compressor, with or without a moisture trap. Water always seems to spit out and the small hobby compressors do not put out a steady flow of air, not to mention the racket they make. I prefer to use either a divers tank and beverage regulator, filled with CO2 or the compressed cans of air. Both are absolutely moisture free, vibration free and noise free. I am in the process of getting a new divers tanks and regulator set up but the small cans work just fine. I like to paint with the screw on lid type color cup. Yes, I have had times when the paint would start to thicken up but I never put a lot of paint in the color cup...just enough to do the part of the job...then I refill the cup. If the mixture looks a bit on the thick side, I add a bit of alcohol. I don't use a mixing formula...just thin until the paint wants to drip off the mixing rod..thats about it. Of course, the pressure you paint at has a lot to do with it. I prefer the upper teen range 15- 20 psi and play with it from there. Changing the air pressure at the regulator, when using the divers tank / regulator is very accurate and precise. Other then that, it's just a system i've become quite comforable with over the years and works well for me. I always mix and thin my paints in a separate jar and then pour small portions of that mixture into the color cup. When i'm done painting, I never add the thinned out paint back into the original bottle. I keep the thinned out paint in the mixing jar and lable what it is.
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 12301 |
|
|
|
bpate
Fireman
Premium Member
|
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 1:00:43 PM
|
I am slowly switching to acrylics but have kept to Tamiya paints for now, having used them years ago with model planes and tanks. I still get a bit more splatter than with Floquil but will persist.
|
Barry
Britannia Creek
http://www.britanniacreek.net/ |
|
Country: Australia
| Posts: 3090 |
|
|
|
DennisT
New Hire
|
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 1:22:39 PM
|
This is getting good. Lots of good tips for me as I get back into this stuff. Thank you, Peter, and everyone else. Peter, you comment about liking Model Master paint interests me. As an age give-away, Model Master came along since I remember things, so to me, I have not even known what the quality might be. I've actually avoided it because of that. ( ! ) I am also somewhat concerned about oders and toxins. I think you all have answered most of what my original questions were. However, Peter, you said you did not like airbrushing with a compressor. I've heard that before. When I got my Badger 350 years ago, I (with complaints from my wallet) also got a,"Badger Model 180-1 Oilless Diaphragm Compressor." So that's what I use. And I realize the inconsistancies of compressor pressures. I need to decide what to do about that now. I also need to explore new airbrush purchase advice relating to one of our boys, but I think I will start a new thread since I'm beginning to "spread" this one in too many directions. Tnx again.
|
| Dennis in the nearly deserted prairies of Eastern Washington state wheatlands |
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 30 |
|
|
|
Peterpools
Engineer
Premium Member
|
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 2:14:51 PM
|
Dennis
Years ago buying the hobby compressors, was the way to go. I was an avid IPMS member and builder and took in as many contests as I could get to. Model Master Paints were strickly enamels then and I loved the way they airbrushed. Thinning was always done with the little black cans of Model Master Paint Thinner. This was my standard airbrush paint. When I began to do model railroading seriously again about 10 - 15 years ago, I decided I didn't want to use any toxic or smelly paints. I was now more aware of the health and environmental concerns, then in the past. I decided to stick with water based, arcrylic paints and haven't looked back. I know the hobby compressors are convenient, easy to use and are not very expensive but most are poor performers. They make a racket, do not have a large pressure range and sputter. Not to mention, have a tendency to walk all over they place when running. I would recommend using canned air for all the opposite reasons, as to why not to use a hobby compressor. I know a lot of guys buy the larger reservoir type compressors but they are still very loud when running and need to be kept in the garage or basement. A small divers tank with beverage regulator, is light weight and very portable. I have mine filled at Firematics with CO2 and the tank is pressure checked every few years for safety. The inspection dates at stamped onto the tank. For me, this is;THE way to go. Of course, you are keeping a tank under high pressure in the house but with care, this shouldn't be a concern. Taking everything into consideration, the best and safest way to go, is the small cans of compressed air.
|
Edited by - Peterpools on 11/14/2004 2:19:40 PM |
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 12301 |
|
|
|
TrainClown
Fireman
|
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 09:41:48 AM
|
Hello there, 
I have used air brushes and spray guns for years. Right now I have a Devilbis (sp) 20 gal compressor unit in the shop that powers a number of tools. When I want to use the air for modeling, say to blow out some dust or airbrush something. I have a 75 foot air hose that I run into the house and down to the basement where I do my work. I drilled a hole in the back rooms window sill to allow the hose entry without leaving the door a jar, and I have a wooden plug for when the hose is not there. This works real good for me, and I never hear the drone of the compressor. I have a moisture trap, but the low air pressure required and more importantly, the volume of air used, is so low, I never seem to get any moisture in the trap. When I run one of my big air paint guns then I do need the moisture trap for sure. If your worried about moisture in your lines, you can bye a disposable moisture trap at a good auto supply shop for about $4, and one will last you more than a year (in my experience. Depends on the humidity in your area)
As for the small hobby compressors, I use to use one of those years ago. I had the same problem you guys are having with the spitting and sputtering. This is what you do to fix that problem without buying a new compressor. What you do is get yourself an air tank from an auto supply place. The kind they use to inflate flat tiers. Up here in Canada, Canadian Tire has them for less than $40 I think. Pick up some pluming fixtures to route the air from the compressor, into the air tank, then to the regulator and then on to the brush. I did this with a simple "T" joint. Make sure you put Teflon tape on all your joints so they don't leak. Now you turn on your compressor and let it build up a head of air pressure in the tank before you start to paint, and you will never have trouble with sputter again. I heard of one chap who used a 100 foot air hose as his air storage, and he said it worked fine, but I have never tried this myself. What ever you do, DON'T use an old propane tank. Propane tanks are not designed to hold air and there is no corrosion prevention lining inside the tanks, so they rust out real fast and have been known to explode suddenly from rusting through! Not fun!
Food for thought.
TrainClown 
|
Clowning around with trains.
 |
|
Country: Canada
| Posts: 1511 |
|
|
|
TomPM
Fireman
Premium Member
|
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 10:10:00 AM
|
How did I miss this? I must be slipping.
First off I am no expert. This is just what I have done and continue to do that works for me.
I posted this elsewhere but it is most likely a good idea to post it here also. I have revised it form the original posting to reflect a few things I have learned.
I tried using Polly Scale paints but I did not have much success with them. I tried various thinning fluids. I tried stirring instead of shaking. I tried using them inside and outside. All attempts for me produced unsatisfactory results. The locations I have available to me for airbrushing prevent me from using any solvent-based paints due to the fumes. A while back there was a thread talking about using acrylic paints for airbrushing and that is where I got the idea and the courage to try them.
So here goes:
A. Item Preparation
1. Wash the item that is going to be airbrushed. I use a mild dish detergent and a toothbrush. Once the item is washed I try not to handle it with my bare hands. I use latex-like gloves that I purchased at my local chain drug store.
2. I dry the item with the airbrush and then set it aside to finish drying.
B. Paint Mixing
3. I use an old small glass paint jar for this. I previously marked the half waypoint on the bottle. The mark has worn off so now I eyeball it.
4. I used Folk Art and Apple Barrel paint by Plaid. There are several different brands of this type of paint such as Americana and Creamcoat. I have used these paints in the past for painting ceramics. They are available at craft stores such Michaels, or A.C. Moore. I fill the bottle about half way with paint. The paint is usually thick.
5. I then add the blue windshield washer fluid, which is what I use for thinner. My ratio is 1:1 for Folk Art. I usually thin Apple Barrel at 2 parts paint 1 part bwwf.
6. Mix the paint and thinner. I have tried both stirring and shaking. Neither seem to make any difference.
7. Pour the paint into the airbrush bottle.
8. Clean the mixing bottle or add water to it to prevent the leftover paint from drying. If you shook the paint to mix don’t forget the inside of the cap.
C. Airbrushing in General
9. Hook up the airbrush and the attached the airbrush paint bottle.
10. Set the air pressure somewhere between 40 to 45 psi.
11. Airbrush.
12. I keep a small cup of distilled water and a Q-tip handy. If the nozzle seems to clog I use the damp Q-tip to clean it.
13. Clean the airbrush.
D. Airbrushing Project Specifics
14. I have found that it is best to paint an undercoat. I use a very light gray for this. The color I use is Folk Art Dove Gray.
15. If the item is originally dark such as black or brown I do two coats of the undercoat gray. If the item is a light color I inspect it after the first coat to see if it needs a second coat.
16. Once the second coat has dried I seal the item with Dullcoat. I found that if I do not do this there is a very good chance I could scratch the paint of. Once the sealer has dried it is very difficult to scratch the paint off with anything other than a hard pointy object.
17. After the sealer has dried, I apply the final color. After the first coat I inspect the item to see if a second coat is needed (almost always the case). If so once the first coat is dry I apply the second coat.
18. Seal with Dullcoat if I am using dry transfers. Seal with Glosscoat if I am using decals.
19. Letter the item.
20. Seal with Dullcaot.
21. Weather if desired.
As for a compressor, I use a compressor with a tank. I do not remember off hand what the size of the tank is.
Hope this helps answer some questions regarding using craft paints.
|
Tom
Jack of All Trades Master of None
Ridley Keystone & Mountain Railroad
My Rail Images Gallery
NARA Member #100
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 4648 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Railroad Line Forums |
© 2000-10 Railroad Line Co. |
|
|
|
Home
Forums
Events Calendar
Sponsors
Guestbook
FAQ
