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Author Previous Topic: Sound Topic Next Topic: What happened to battery Powered Radio Controlled
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Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 11/29/2017 :  08:55:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here's the info from the two modelers on the other forum. I'm not going to quote them 100%, just some facts as to why the motor reacts the way it does.

Iron core motors, such as the Mabuchi 130 size that retail for as low as $0.50 or less do not like low speed well. With low PWM (pulse width modulation) the motors sing at 1KHz (1000 Hertz). 30-100 Hz is good for starting but the motors still growl. The higher frequency PWM is not good for starting or low speed, the motor jumps into action instantly with a high rate of speed.

The cheap system I experimented with are intended for car/boat racing market where you do not need the slow starting speeds a loco needs. The average customer of car/boats does not want a dead band in the beginning, he wants immediate action once the trigger is pulled.

So there you have it the explanation why one of these cheap systems won't work for model loco control.

I do have one curiosity and this is what if I take a servo and hook up my 6 volt motor. Will it have better speed control or not. Looks like I'll need to purchase a servo and find out.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2550 Go to Top of Page

Rickie
New Hire

Posted - 11/29/2017 :  6:25:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi

What I was inquiring about was what the effect would be if I battery-powered through my Del Tang Receiver to a motor in my locomotive while using a 2S. 7.4 Lipo

I reached out to an electronics store today and they believe that at that level (7.4 v) the only effect will be slower operation and less pulling power.

They thought that would be the extent of the impact.

Too low a voltage would be non-beneficial, but as long as I didn't drop to a very low number, there would be no other adverse effects.

Rick



Country: Canada | Posts: 35 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 11/29/2017 :  8:16:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rickie

Hi

What I was inquiring about was what the effect would be if I battery-powered through my Del Tang Receiver to a motor in my locomotive while using a 2S. 7.4 Lipo



I reached out to an electronics store today and they believe that at that level (7.4 v) the only effect will be slower operation and less pulling power.

They thought that would be the extent of the impact.

Too low a voltage would be non-beneficial, but as long as I didn't drop to a very low number, there would be no other adverse effects.

Rick
[/quote]

Sorry for not getting back to you on this. I agree with them on that analysis. It's no different than running the motor on straight DC using a transistor throttle that varies the voltage from 0 to 12 volts. Less voltage = slower loco + less pulling power. The only difference is what controls the voltage to the motor.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2550 Go to Top of Page

Rickie
New Hire

Posted - 11/30/2017 :  12:51:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you, Bernd. That's essentially what I wanted to hear regarding the 7.4 volt hook-up I plan on running as sort of an experiment using both Del Tang and BlueRail on two new HO Bachmann 2-6-0's.

The custom built tender is coming together. I designed it to be tall enough as to hold the 3S Lipo battery that I purchased and the Receiver in a nice organized manner. The battery slides nicely into it's own basement apartment. The receiver will reside on the floor above.

The ground floor extends only three-quarters of the way along the length of the tender in order to leave room for the looping of the wires connecting the Battery to the Receiver. Half the rear section of the car's end will slide out to reveal the charging connector.

Currently working on several other projects as well, scratchbuilding a freight shed, modelling the water around the docks (Woodland Scenics water almost ready to be poured) and also waiting on an order for a Peco 3-way switch due to the fact I toasted one last night by accident with soldering gun.

Anyway, take care Bernd

Rick



Country: Canada | Posts: 35 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 11/30/2017 :  07:32:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rickie

Thank you, Bernd. That's essentially what I wanted to hear regarding the 7.4 volt hook-up I plan on running as sort of an experiment using both Del Tang and BlueRail on two new HO Bachmann 2-6-0's.

The custom built tender is coming together. I designed it to be tall enough as to hold the 3S Lipo battery that I purchased and the Receiver in a nice organized manner. The battery slides nicely into it's own basement apartment. The receiver will reside on the floor above.

The ground floor extends only three-quarters of the way along the length of the tender in order to leave room for the looping of the wires connecting the Battery to the Receiver. Half the rear section of the car's end will slide out to reveal the charging connector.


Any chance of some pictures of your set up?

quote:

Currently working on several other projects as well, scratchbuilding a freight shed, modelling the water around the docks (Woodland Scenics water almost ready to be poured) and also waiting on an order for a Peco 3-way switch due to the fact I toasted one last night by accident with soldering gun.

Anyway, take care Bernd

Rick



Sounds like some great work going on there. Enjoy.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2550 Go to Top of Page

Rickie
New Hire

Posted - 11/30/2017 :  09:38:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I will try and send some photos early in the new year when I get those Brockville dock projects fitted together. First I'll have to figure out how this interface works in order to post photos.

I will say one thing though that I have really been impressed with recently was the fact that I could snap a photograph of the actual St Lawrence River at Brockville and then have it blown up into a 48 inch by 12 foot backdrop.

The material that the photograph is printed on has a backing like mac-tack with the exception that it peels off for reuse. It's a new product that a photography shop in Ottawa is selling. Pretty cool.



Country: Canada | Posts: 35 Go to Top of Page

Rickie
New Hire

Posted - 12/04/2017 :  10:21:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So, I still don't understand why you needed to send me a different address in order to access the Deadrail topic.

When I sign in to the Forum, the deadrail topic area states No Postings or something. Has our chain of conversations been archived or something?

Have never seen anything like this before in any forum

Thks

Rick



Country: Canada | Posts: 35 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 12/05/2017 :  08:45:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rickie

So, I still don't understand why you needed to send me a different address in order to access the Deadrail topic.

When I sign in to the Forum, the deadrail topic area states No Postings or something. Has our chain of conversations been archived or something?

Have never seen anything like this before in any forum

Thks

Rick



Rick,

I'm using Windows 7 Professional and Explorer 11. No problems. When I log on I start out with the page that states how many topics are active (Active Topics Since and a drop down box to the right.) I show 25 topics in the Dead Rail section. This thread is at the top on page one. There are two pages in this section.

If you click on the Dead Rail Forum do you see any subjects at all? Scroll to the bottom of the page. It should show 15 threads on the first page. Scroll to the bottom where you will see: "Showing topics 1 - 15 of 25, sorted by" and a drop down box. Mine is set at = "last post time" in "descending order" from "all topics"

Give that a try. Then if that doesn't work contact one of the Mods for help. I never had this happen.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2550 Go to Top of Page

Rickie
New Hire

Posted - 12/05/2017 :  10:38:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bernd,

I'm an apple guy. Regardless, the Forum interface is all back to normal again so don't know what was happening, maybe it was the site doing a bit of maintenance work etc

Hope all is well at your end. Was notified by Andy at Micron that my Del Tang order is now on its way and tracking numbers were included.

Good experience to this point dealing with Micron in regard to purchasing Del Tang Receivers and Transmitters. The cool thing of course is that Micron does the final assembly and I will receive the product fully assembled.

I had to wait a couple of additional days for shipping because I did not want a center-off speed/direction control on my transmitter but rather wanted a separate switch for direction and then a full range knob for speed. They obviously get less orders to assemble that version. But all good.

I'm dealing with mating code 83 peco track with code 100 peco turnouts - pain in the butt. I had the code 100 turnouts left over from my previous layout and didn't want to spend all the additional money for new units. So, I'm slipping shims under the code 83 to raise it to the level of the turnouts.......picky work.

Take care

Rick





Country: Canada | Posts: 35 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 12/05/2017 :  3:29:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rickie

Hi Bernd,

I'm an apple guy. Regardless, the Forum interface is all back to normal again so don't know what was happening, maybe it was the site doing a bit of maintenance work etc

Hope all is well at your end. Was notified by Andy at Micron that my Del Tang order is now on its way and tracking numbers were included.

Good experience to this point dealing with Micron in regard to purchasing Del Tang Receivers and Transmitters. The cool thing of course is that Micron does the final assembly and I will receive the product fully assembled.

I had to wait a couple of additional days for shipping because I did not want a center-off speed/direction control on my transmitter but rather wanted a separate switch for direction and then a full range knob for speed. They obviously get less orders to assemble that version. But all good.

I'm dealing with mating code 83 peco track with code 100 peco turnouts - pain in the butt. I had the code 100 turnouts left over from my previous layout and didn't want to spend all the additional money for new units. So, I'm slipping shims under the code 83 to raise it to the level of the turnouts.......picky work.

Take care

Rick




Great news all around Rick.

I'm trying to get some enthusiasm worked up to work on my HOn30 gravel pit portion of the layout.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2550 Go to Top of Page

Rickie
New Hire

Posted - 12/05/2017 :  4:37:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gravel pit sounds interesting. Could be a destination for hopper car/ore cars.

So, you're in HOn3. I'll bet it really helps maximize space plus narrow gauge is fun. What kind of motive power, nineteenth or twentieth century?

Rick



Country: Canada | Posts: 35 Go to Top of Page

Rickie
New Hire

Posted - 12/05/2017 :  9:43:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
.... it also just occurred to me that maybe only the gravel pit itself is narrow gauge.

Is your layout wired and running power through the rails until you discover the best way to move to deadrail.

I don't see many others jumping in here to create a stampede to "power through battery technology" but I still believe it represents the future.

I'm worried about connecting those Del Tang receivers properly when I do take delivery without ruining them. I may need you, Bernd to talk me through each step.

Rick



Country: Canada | Posts: 35 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 12/06/2017 :  08:46:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rickie

Gravel pit sounds interesting. Could be a destination for hopper car/ore cars.

So, you're in HOn3. I'll bet it really helps maximize space plus narrow gauge is fun. What kind of motive power, nineteenth or twentieth century?

Rick



Hi Rick,

I'm going to give you the Reader's Digest version here so as to not drift to far off topic.

I call myself a "protolancer", a word I coined. I like to take a prototype situation and do my own design to fit my needs with in plausibility. My limestone quarry is being based on a quarry west of me in the town of Leroy, New York. Both the Lehigh Valley, the B & O and the NYC ran through this area. The gravel quarry will be HOn30, that's a 30" gauge line. I have 6 scratch built engines of my own design that will operate on this operation. I'm also highly interested in animation and plan on animating the loading of cars on the line and then running to a transfer area where the limestone will be further processed and transferred to standard gauge hoppers.

Then there will be an HOn3, that's the 36" gauge line, that will serve a coal mine, animated loading of coal, and transferred to a processing plant and then loaded on to standard gauge hoppers. Also included will be a logging operation.

Then the standard gauge line is going to be follow the LV railroad in my area. It will be based on Rochester Junction in Honeoye Falls, New York. I will be modeling the branch line that ran North to Rochester, New York, the northern terminal of the LV. I also plan on combing the B&O that ran to the Charlotte Coal Dock on Lake Ontario. The idea is to carry coal from the HOn3 mineing area to the standard gauge hoppers and then to the coal dock.

And I'm also interested on TT scale - 1:120 - 1/10" = 1 foot and am dabbling in that scale due to the challenge of building almost everything that has an American flavor to it since there a only a small number od companies producing TT scale kits. And they are only buildings.

So there you have it.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2550 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 12/06/2017 :  09:02:40 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rickie

.... it also just occurred to me that maybe only the gravel pit itself is narrow gauge.


So as you can deduce from my previous post that I plan on using three gauges, HO, HOn3, & HOn2.

quote:
Is your layout wired and running power through the rails until you discover the best way to move to deadrail.


At present I only have partial benchwork up on the limestone quarry part. At present I plan on using only power through the rails for the whole layout and RC for control. The battery powered models are more of an experiment to see what will work with what. So no plans of fully using BP for everything.

quote:
I don't see many others jumping in here to create a stampede to "power through battery technology" but I still believe it represents the future.


Here's a link to an article in MRH on "Dead Rail". It gives some points brought out by some who don't want battery power any were near their layouts and those that think it's a good idea.

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/magazine/mrh2017-12/reverse-running

quote:
I'm worried about connecting those Del Tang receivers properly when I do take delivery without ruining them. I may need you, Bernd to talk me through each step.


Ask away. I'd more than happy to help out where ever I can.

Here's a couple of links to my scratch-built HOn30 boxcabs. You'll have to go through the pages since these were on a two froum build challenges.

This one contains my HOn30 boxcab diesels. This one was a tribute to a forum member that was well loved and passed suddenly.

http://www.railroad-line.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=47916&whichpage=1

This was another challenge were I choose to build the four electric boxcabs.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44328&whichpage=1

Once I get the quarry line running I plan on adding Deltang receiver's to these engines.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2550 Go to Top of Page

Rickie
New Hire

Posted - 12/07/2017 :  8:52:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bernd, that is a great basis for a layout in my opinion. Really fun to imagine the operations.

In regard to the Charlotte Coal Docks, a big steamboat railway-car ferry (with the imaginative name of Ontario # 1) took coal from the Charlotte Coal Docks to Cobourg Canada as part of an arrangement with the Grand Trunk Railroad. The ferry ran until the late forties. You may also have to add a big car ferry to your layout.



Country: Canada | Posts: 35 Go to Top of Page
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