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Author Previous Topic: Large scale model of cathedral Topic Next Topic: minimum tools build
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ocalicreek
Engine Wiper

Posted - 05/31/2017 :  2:05:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit ocalicreek's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello All,

This is the continuation thread for my Spring 2017 Challenge (off the shelf) build, an Alexander Scale Models Fairbanks Morse 100 ton Coaling Station. I have been chipping away at this kit, bit by bit, since the April challenge deadline and I decided it was time to create that follow-up thread I had mentioned there.

Photos to follow...

Galen

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ocalicreek
Engine Wiper

Posted - 05/31/2017 :  2:30:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit ocalicreek's Homepage  Reply with Quote


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The challenge with these old Alexander kits, at least for me, is the question of whether or not to use their yellow card for parts. The little fiddly bits they expect you to make with a paper product...I suppose styrene would work far better. However, there's a purist in me that wants to utilize as much as possible the original kit material. I did substitute styrene for the braces on the little hook I built. I don't know how folks did it back in the day, at least not without throwing something or kicking some defenseless animal. (I would never actually kick a dog or cat without good reason, just so you know.)

Anyway, I managed, with the help of some CA absorbed into the edges of the paper to stop it delaminating, to construct most of the chute parts from original bits. I used some nbw sprue held over a candle to get small round plastic blobs for use as doorknobs and in this case, bolt heads.

This is also a case of 'use plans for guidance but measure the model for dimensions'. 'nuff said.

I hope these parts look okay once painted to resemble metal.

Galen



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deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/31/2017 :  3:40:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I always enjoy a build from a vintage kit. Good call on the CA to stiffen/seal the cardboard.

dave


Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)

Country: USA | Posts: 6493 Go to Top of Page

ocalicreek
Engine Wiper

Posted - 05/31/2017 :  5:34:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit ocalicreek's Homepage  Reply with Quote


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Thanks, Dave. I have a fondness for these vintage kits.

Two more images to catch up. I added nbw castings of various types, based on what I've seen on the one at Greenfield Village. The rods weren't that tricky after all.

More paper details.

Holes are drilled for the gooseneck lamps. The railings will be one of the last things I install before I paint, or perhaps I'll paint the stock and then install them afterwards.

Galen



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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 06/02/2017 :  07:55:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Galen,

Great looking model.

It's a lot of fiddly work, but installing details like the rods adds a lot to your model.

The old kits have a special feel to them. Good idea usng CA to stiffen the edges of paper but isn't this a violation of the vintage kit building ethic since CA did not exist way back when? And do you have vintage Floquil for panting your tower?

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

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ocalicreek
Engine Wiper

Posted - 06/02/2017 :  09:57:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit ocalicreek's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Mike,

In a former life I was a music major studying composition. For a music analysis class I wrote a paper on Toru Takemitsu's "To the Edge of Dream", an ethereal, atonal-sounding piece. In truth he used the octatonic scale - a scale limited to only a few notes (8) and this led to that other-worldly quality. But I found a quote by Takemitsu that helped me unlock just how he composed that piece. He said, "Sometimes I use the octatonic scale, and sometimes I use all the other notes." Sure enough; studying the score I found that for 97% of the piece he strictly adhered to that scale while there were a few moments, for effect, where he dropped in a note that wasn't in the scale. It worked.

So I might say, "Sometimes I use the kit parts; and sometimes I use all the other parts."

And no, I have no secret stash of Floquil. Thanks for the chuckle.

Galen



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hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 06/02/2017 :  10:02:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I totally get the idea of using as much of the original kit components as possible, and I applaud the effort and dedication. I too concur with the use of the ACC as a smart move. Remember that the original kit components would have been in far better condition 40 years ago, so I don't consider the use of ACC as breaking the 'purist' intent.

Another advantage in the use of ACC is that the paper component can be sealed so that when painted the surfaces better represent a 'metal'. No matter how hard one tries, some subtle differences between the old/historical modeling materials/methods will still be viewed in comparison to today's modeling, and without a few fudge factors, one would be really hard pressed to produce a model which will stand up to modern standards.


-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Country: USA | Posts: 7060 Go to Top of Page

ocalicreek
Engine Wiper

Posted - 06/02/2017 :  11:50:52 AM  Show Profile  Visit ocalicreek's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks, KP. I'm certainly not a historical (or is that hysterical?) archivist or museum curator. But I do want to build these older kits (not that anybody who was a kid when these were made is 'old' (wink)) for a few reasons. One, I want others to see what these things look like for the sake of the history, both the model and the prototype, but not as I mentioned in a slavish way. If you want to see a real wooden coaling tower based on F-M designs still in operation, go to Greenfield Village in Dearborn, MI or check out the vids folks have shared on YouTube. That one's only 3 years old. Talk about a time machine!

But the other reason is the one that really motivates me more. I like to build a kit that is maybe not so finescale, compared to today's offerings, and elevate it somewhat. I've got a trio of Laconia box cars (former reefers) that came with wood stock that was to be shaped into a fishbelly underframe. I will rebuild these cars (they were train-show treasures in cardboard trays) with Walther's metal fishbelly underframes, the sort of aftermarket detail one might have used as a replacement part when building these kits not long after they came out. That's less because of the history, and more for the added level of detail and functionally for the additional weight. I'm also working with a 3d printer designer to create detail parts for these cars that will make them even more realistic and showcase a unique feature found on rolling stock of the 1920's. They won't be ready for this years' Bay Area RPM, but maybe by next year.

Anyway, that's a whole lot of talk without much to see. A picture, next.

Galen



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Reg Barron
Engine Wiper

Posted - 06/02/2017 :  12:24:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually ACC was around 50+ years ago. It was called Easrman 910, and was very expensive!

Reg Barron



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ocalicreek
Engine Wiper

Posted - 06/02/2017 :  12:58:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit ocalicreek's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Interesting, Reg. I have been using Gorilla Glue's version - I love it because the needle in the cap keeps it from drying out and clogging. But it is a medium-thick viscosity and I'd want something thinner for stiffening or coating large areas.

Anyway, here's the 'engine house' that sits next to the tower:



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Today I hope to reach a point where I can put on a first coat of paint. I am substituting scale 2x2 and 1x4 for the handrails and a similar smaller stock for the roof fascias (absent on the photo above). Time for careful cutting. The stock wood in the kit is too uneven from piece to piece, and I want a finer appearance on the delicate parts.

Galen



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ocalicreek
Engine Wiper

Posted - 06/04/2017 :  9:26:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit ocalicreek's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Question: This tower is going to be incorporated into a layout someday. IN the meantime, I want to mount it on a diorama base that is thin and strong and won't warp. After much research I'm considering three - gatorboard, styrene, and plywood. What say you? Which have you used successfully (that is, without warping)?

Thanks,

Galen



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desertdrover
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 06/05/2017 :  10:09:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ocalicreek

Question: This tower is going to be incorporated into a layout someday. IN the meantime, I want to mount it on a diorama base that is thin and strong and won't warp. After much research I'm considering three - gatorboard, styrene, and plywood. What say you? Which have you used successfully (that is, without warping)?

Thanks,


Galen



I posted in your other thread asking this question.
There are many items used by modelers for dioramas. However, I build all my mini scenes on a Tempered hardboard panel 3/16" (as seen in the picture showing top and bottom of panel). I like to build all my scenes this way, and then plant them into the layout. It is easier to build them at the work bench and not try to construct them at the layout. These panels have never warped or twisted on me, even after gluing in place, and spraying water/glue/scenery materials.



Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast

Country: USA | Posts: 17621 Go to Top of Page

ocalicreek
Engine Wiper

Posted - 06/05/2017 :  11:12:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit ocalicreek's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Louis! I read in a few military modeler forums about tempered hardboard warping when celluclay was applied, or other wet scenery techniques. I wonder if folks are really using the same stuff as described or some other form of Masonite/pressed wood fiber material? There seems to be a difference in the grades/composition of hardboard.

Anyway, which side do you build on - rough or smooth? Also, do you apply anything like staples or mesh to the panel in order to give scenic material something to grab onto?

Thanks,

Galen



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desertdrover
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 06/05/2017 :  11:39:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ocalicreek

Thanks, Louis! I read in a few military modeler forums about tempered hardboard warping when celluclay was applied, or other wet scenery techniques. I wonder if folks are really using the same stuff as described or some other form of Masonite/pressed wood fiber material? There seems to be a difference in the grades/composition of hardboard.

Anyway, which side do you build on - rough or smooth? Also, do you apply anything like staples or mesh to the panel in order to give scenic material something to grab onto?

Thanks,

Galen



Hi Galen, First, those military modelers must be using something else for it to warp.
I use the ruff side to build on for better grabbing of the scenery material. You can attach any items as you would build on anything else. This panel just makes it portable to work with.
This tempered hardboard is the same material that garage doors were made of at one time, and they never warped in the weather/rain. If they did warp, it was from years of weather beating rain, and not being protected/painted.
Once built on and scenicked, you will not get any warping.
To ease your mind, if you can get a small piece, put water, glue or anything wet that you would use on it, and let it set for a few days and test it.


Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast

Country: USA | Posts: 17621 Go to Top of Page

ocalicreek
Engine Wiper

Posted - 06/05/2017 :  12:05:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit ocalicreek's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by desertdrover

quote:
Originally posted by ocalicreek

Thanks, Louis! I read in a few military modeler forums about tempered hardboard warping when celluclay was applied, or other wet scenery techniques. I wonder if folks are really using the same stuff as described or some other form of Masonite/pressed wood fiber material? There seems to be a difference in the grades/composition of hardboard.

Anyway, which side do you build on - rough or smooth? Also, do you apply anything like staples or mesh to the panel in order to give scenic material something to grab onto?

Thanks,

Galen



Hi Galen, First, those military modelers must be using something else for it to warp.
I use the ruff side to build on for better grabbing of the scenery material. You can attach any items as you would build on anything else. This panel just makes it portable to work with.
This tempered hardboard is the same material that garage doors were made of at one time, and they never warped in the weather/rain. If they did warp, it was from years of weather beating rain, and not being protected/painted.
Once built on and scenicked, you will not get any warping.
To ease your mind, if you can get a small piece, put water, glue or anything wet that you would use on it, and let it set for a few days and test it.



The culprit for the military guys seems to be celluclay - it is the most often mentioned. Personally, I like sculptamold but have used plaster, drywall joint compound, lightweight spackle, etc. for scenery on layouts. I would not be using any of that on this diorama base.

As for testing it myself...I like that approach! I may swing by the store and see if there are any handy cutoffs or smaller pieces I can experiment with.

When I was younger I used foam-core board, the cheap stuff found in any store for posters, etc. I only used it once, no twice, before I noticed a little warping, which over time became significant. So I'm a little gunshy about putting a model on which I have spent much time and effort onto a base that may twist and warp out of shape. You have given me the confidence to try tempered hardboard.

Galen



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desertdrover
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 06/06/2017 :  6:22:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Galen, George Sellios the world known HO Railroad Modeler of the Franklin & South Manchester, he said in one of his Allen Keller videos, that all his diorama's of the structures he sells is put onto a piece of plywood, then when he is ready to place in into his layout, he just cuts it down to the size he needs, (figures, details and all) on a table saw and plants in into his layout scene. So I guess he never had problems using plywood as a diorama base.

Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast

Country: USA | Posts: 17621 Go to Top of Page
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