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Author Previous Topic: Offical Railway Equipment Register Measurments? Topic Next Topic: new (to me) line of HO and O scale figures
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SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 04/03/2019 :  11:34:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hohn

Levi,

Out of curiosity I did a little checking and you’re right, there are no floors. The photo is a little deceptive, but one can see the lower halves of barrels in the bottom layer to do some calculations.

Cyril Durrenberger did an article In Mainline Modeler on cooperage cars a decade ago that might be useful to you.

Mike




Mike,

Thanks for the info. Do you know what month and year the article was in?

Thanks,

Levi


Working on drawing up a building plan for the car today.



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SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 04/03/2019 :  11:36:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Found it. February 2005.

Thanks!

Levi



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CNE1899
New Hire



Posted - 04/03/2019 :  12:53:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not sure if this info. helps anyone at this point, but because I was looking in the 1901 ORER, I looked for "rack cars". I came across rack cars, oil rack cars, and barrel cars.
I have attached a jpeg of the railroads that listed rack cars.(haven't figured out picture posting yet)


Download Attachment: RackCar.jpg
149.21 KB

Well, seems the prints too small. The second RR down is the St.L.,K.&N.W.R.R. Inside measurements are: 51-11/2 L x 9-6 W x 11 H Outside measurments are: 51-3 L X 11-51/2 W over eaves, 11-7 W over cornice, 14-91/4 H to eaves, 15-71/4 H to running board, 15-6 H to top of brake staff.



Edited by - CNE1899 on 04/03/2019 1:09:12 PM

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SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 04/03/2019 :  1:31:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
CNE,

Those are the Cooperage Flat Cars that are enclosed. I have a few pictures of those.

Thanks for posting.

Levi



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SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 04/03/2019 :  7:07:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm working on my drawings for the plans to build this car and I discovered something very interesting. The picture of the car that is a total side shot with men standing and sitting, IS NOT the same car as the barrel car which is sitting on the tracks, taken at a 7/8 view near a roundhouse. They are two totally different cars.

The men standing in front of the car, is A Knabb Car Company No 12. It has a tapered side sill from the bolster center towards the end. 25 barrels long

The track 7/8 car is A Knabb Car Company No 16. It has no tapered side sill and is longer, 26 barrels. Totally different car.

Because of the lack of photographs at this time, I am going to treat the the 12 similar to the 16 in designing its end. If the Mainline Modeler sheds some light to this and shows a closed end on No 12, then I will do the drawing accordingly.

Just wanted to point this out and I will show these details in my drawings. Right now I have the underside drawn and I'm doing the side sill with stake pocket locations right now. Hopefully I will have posted in a day or two.

Thank you for your patience.

Levi



Country: USA | Posts: 417 Go to Top of Page

BlairM
Section Hand

Posted - 04/04/2019 :  09:36:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SAFN SAAP

Blair,

Barrels in the car are 25 in a column, 4 rows deep, for a total of 300 barrels.




Levi,
I count 24 barrels long in the Knabb car photo, I would love to see any other photos you all might have. I would also love to see the Mainline article if anyone could post or message that to me.

I'm not sure what fascinates me about this car, the cooperage aspect is interesting since that is something that such a traditional shipping element. I also like the large size of the car, the Knabb car seems to be sagging slightly over the extreme length of the car, and probably with this many barrels it starts to get heavy.
I might build my car around a piece of lead or brass plate for weight so I can run an empty version of the car.

Blair



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SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 04/04/2019 :  10:37:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Morning Blair,

Making this car empty would be a challenge indeed. Hiding weight in between the barrels would be the easiest way. No need to fill this car with 300 barrels. I should have my drawings up later today.

As for the barrel count in car No 16, there are 26 barrels per line, 3 per column, 4 deep. I have posted up a picture to show.

2 Barrels in the end section
3 Barrels in the second section
3 Barrels in the third section
3 Barrels in the fourth section
4 Barrels in the fifth section
3 Barrels in the sixth section
3 Barrels in the seventh section
3 Barrels in the eighth section
2 Barrels in the end section

26 Barrels in a row
3 Barrel rows
4 Columns

26 x 3 x 4 = 312 Barrels

Like I shared, the Knabb No. 16 car is larger than the No. 12 car by 2-3 feet. It also has a solid side sill. It is not tapered like No 12.

I will post up the pictures of the Mainline Models article and anyone who would like a copy, please email me at: sanantonio-sanfrancisco@outlook.com. I will send you a PDF of the article. If you would like my plans I will send those too.

Levi








Edited by - SAFN SAAP on 04/04/2019 10:40:21 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 417 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 04/04/2019 :  10:41:42 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have a paper copy of the article and could scan it later today. PM or email me with your email addresses if you want the scan.

There are several photos but they seem to be 1899 or later. There is a Knabb car but it is fully enclosed.

Mike



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SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 04/04/2019 :  10:51:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In comparison,

A Knabb Car No. 12:

There are 25 barrels per line, 3 per column, 4 deep. This car has 9 like the No 16. car.

2 Barrels in the end section
3 Barrels in the second section
3 Barrels in the third section
3 Barrels in the fourth section
2 Barrels in the fifth section
3 Barrels in the sixth section
3 Barrels in the seventh section
3 Barrels in the eighth section
2 Barrels in the end section

25 Barrels in a row
3 Barrel rows
4 Columns

25 x 3 x 4 = 300 Barrels

Side sills are tapered. Waiting on information to see if the ends of this car are solid or open like the No. 16 car.

Levi






Country: USA | Posts: 417 Go to Top of Page

SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 04/04/2019 :  10:55:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hohn

I have a paper copy of the article and could scan it later today. PM or email me with your email addresses if you want the scan.

There are several photos but they seem to be 1899 or later. There is a Knabb car but it is fully enclosed.

Mike



Fully enclosed???

Hmmm, this sounds interesting. I really like cooperage cars.

I have another cooperage car from the Welti Bros. Cooperage that I am going to build. A huge car. I haven't scaled it yet, but appears to be anywhere from 60-78 feet!

Wahoo!



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OK Hogger
Crew Chief

Posted - 04/04/2019 :  12:47:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've posted this picture before in my thread, but seeing as the subject of cooperage cars is being discussed, perhaps it will be of value.

This is a pic of one of the H.D. Williams Cooperage Co cars. H.D. Williams moved from Poplar Bluff, MO to Leslie, AR in the 1900s and shipped over the Missouri & North Arkansas.



Andre



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SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 04/04/2019 :  2:45:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am having decals made of the HD Williams Cooperage Co. I can't wait for them to be finished. I really like these old huge cars.

Levi



Country: USA | Posts: 417 Go to Top of Page

BlairM
Section Hand

Posted - 04/04/2019 :  6:55:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just checked your 2,3.... count and the photo, both add up to 24. The end shot of car 16 does work out to 26 per row as you note.

At 16 looks like it could be slightly larger too

Blair


quote:
Originally posted by SAFN SAAP

In comparison,

A Knabb Car No. 12:

There are 25 barrels per line, 3 per column, 4 deep. This car has 9 like the No 16. car.

2 Barrels in the end section
3 Barrels in the second section
3 Barrels in the third section
3 Barrels in the fourth section
2 Barrels in the fifth section
3 Barrels in the sixth section
3 Barrels in the seventh section
3 Barrels in the eighth section
2 Barrels in the end section

25 Barrels in a row
3 Barrel rows
4 Columns

25 x 3 x 4 = 300 Barrels

Side sills are tapered. Waiting on information to see if the ends of this car are solid or open like the No. 16 car.

Levi








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SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 04/04/2019 :  8:18:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You are right. How did I get 25? Hmmm. Ok, well, 24 then. The drawings I'm doing reflect the proper spacing. Sorry about that.

Levi



Country: USA | Posts: 417 Go to Top of Page

SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 04/06/2019 :  12:01:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
While we are waiting for the article to be posted up, I thought I would post up these two pictures of other cooperage cars.

The first is from the A M Welti Bros., out of Cleveland, OH. This is a 65' car, that is approximately 13' 6" tall, and 9" 6" wide. It has a unique three way, off center door. It opens on the top, the center, and the bottom. The indication is that there are floors in this car, otherwise there would be no reason for the hinge sets.




The second is the Hutchinson Cooperage Car. This is a 60' car, that is 11' 2" tall, and 10' wide. It is one of the few monster boxcars that existed west of the Mississippi and could not travel to the East because tunnels were not possible with it.




Both these cars are slated to be built. I've worked my plans on the Hutchinson Car already. I'm working on the A M Welti Bros now.

I thought I would share.

Levi



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