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Author Previous Topic: The Coos Bay and Willamette  Valley Part two Topic Next Topic: New source for 3D printed arch-bar trucks
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deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 02/12/2021 :  11:02:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a token diesel. I got it for testing (James can attest to that, he prodded me to do the first run over the layout with that RS-1.) Later, I'll use it to push around a cleaning car. Diesels may be stinky, but they run A LOT better than steam!

dave


Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)

Country: USA | Posts: 8959 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/16/2021 :  8:00:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Replies:

Diesel contraband lurking among the steam enthusiasts: Seems most of us model railroaders have a tendency to have "out of era/theme" models stashed!

Me And TOC(19)...

Nothing is going to be sold. In fact, I do have a "safety net" in place: The 12' 6" x 9' 6" (24" deep) around-the walls benchwork in this computer room.

Dream with me for a moment...

Let's say that a year from now the urge to play with itty bitty steam powered trains just gets overwhelming. Seeing as I like mountains and grades... it would seem that "table-top-flat" around the walls benchwork doesn't cut it. How am I ever going to get a helper grade on that?

Good question. One I've puzzled over before with no good solution. HOWEVER...

I just might have thought of a way.

Think: Tunnel construction.

Tunnel construction?

Yup. The plucky little line (whatever I would decide to name it) has decided that boring the hole is going to take way too long, so while the tunnel boring is taking place... temporary switchbacks are built OVER the divide. The tunnel bore route can be used for around the room continuous running (when in such a mood), but the switchbacks would be used for "operation".

Now ain't that the berries??

SO... I have a plan (safety net) for scratching that TOC19 itch if/when it bites me on the butt and needs a good scratching.

Always have dreams and schemes... or life gets boring.

Andre



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OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/19/2021 :  10:31:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just a follow up:

Sure 'nuf, the above idea of re-purposing the current 9'6 x 12' 6" bench work just might be my "safety net" for my TOC19 fetish.

Told the Mrs today that if I decided to reuse the bench work (again), this time for TOC19, it might be easier to muster up the courage to attempt a funky fantastic Colorado theme similar to what I originally was wanting out in the larger building. Seeing as it's much smaller and more manageable than the space in the out building, I wouldn't have so much scenery and what have you to create and build.

In fact, I just might pull out my track planning templates and use some of my evenings in the near future to see what could be done with the space.

Scaled way down in scope (compared to the sprawl that was going to be out in the building), I just might have enough TOC19 stuff on hand to equip it!

How do you like THEM apples?

Andre



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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 02/19/2021 :  10:50:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OK Hogger


How do you like THEM apples?



I think it’s a real pippin of an idea.



Country: USA | Posts: 7451 Go to Top of Page

Bill Gill
Fireman



Posted - 02/20/2021 :  07:55:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It has a lot of a-peel and doesn't need to be an Empire or even The Big Apple to still be the Envy of all.


Country: USA | Posts: 3286 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/20/2021 :  08:19:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike:

I am already curious as to what would be possible in this small room.

Bill:

LOL!

EDIT: I won't mind a spaghetti bowl design at all at this point. If I can incorporate the elements I want via a cramped plan, I would likely be willing take whatever I can get.

Andre



Edited by - OK Hogger on 02/20/2021 08:43:05 AM

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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 02/20/2021 :  08:53:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Andre,

What you build depends on what you like doing with your trains. Do you like to look at your rolling stock, do switching, run trains over distances, display your locomotives? Do you want continuous running or out and back?

Mike


_________________________________________________
Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. James Baldwin

Country: USA | Posts: 7451 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/20/2021 :  09:13:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Off the cuff, my "Givens n' Druthers" are the same as before:

* Helper grades.

* The potential for some interesting switching.

* Possible provision for continuous running.

I'm not too hung up on highly detailed models, be it engines, rolling stock, or structures. "Good enuf" will be good enough.

The switchbacks over the divide idea (if I can incorporate it) will provide the helper grades. The tunnel that's "being bored" will have track all the way through it and thus can provide the continuous running when desired. Interesting switching will likely come along fairly easily.

Returning to Colorado, and in view of the temporary nature of the stop gap switchbacks, will give me mental plausibility to run the grades up as needed, all the way to 4% if needed.

Later today (dealing with a water outage right now), I'm thinking about piddling with my track planning templates and see what can be done.

Andre



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OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/22/2021 :  12:42:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bit of an update on me and my silliness...

IF I can plan something that I like for the existing bench work in this 9'6" x 12'6" computer/office/hobby room... I'm 95% sure that a TOC19 layout will move to "Definite Maybe" status.

Biggest challenge will be creating some kind of mountainous setting, yet be at the same entrance/exit level of the current room corner openings to the closet shelf.

As for a theme, I'm hoping for a "switchbacks over the mountain" while a tunnel is being bored... but initial track plan doodling hasn't been too encouraging.

So IF I can get a track plan I like... TOC19 will be secure in my future. (And should that happen, I just might convert my extra computer desk into a work area for TOC19 stuff.)

Looks like TOC19 n' me ain't plum dead by a far piece.

Andre



Edited by - OK Hogger on 02/22/2021 12:43:54 AM

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OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/22/2021 :  12:05:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Trackplans...

Here is an extreme example of what can be done in relatively small depth via switchbacks.





Using "switchbacks over the top of a tunnel being bored" idea, I think I will be able to come up with something for the existing benchwork... but there's gonna' be a lot of scribbling and erasing before something begins to gel on paper.

However, given the potential of the switchbacks idea, it does resurrect the hope in me that my Colorado & Pacific idea may have been given life again.

And (if I go for it), for better or worse, I will try "Funky Fantastic". What have I got to lose?

Andre



Edited by - OK Hogger on 02/22/2021 12:07:11 PM

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OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/22/2021 :  11:32:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Found this scale drawing of the room dimensions I have to work with. Keep in mind there's 24" deep bench work around the three walls, and a connector shelf inside the closet. I still have the hinged drop-down bridge parts on hand for the entryway.

SO... my challenge is to fit in the elements I really need, my "Givens", into this space:



IF I can come up with a plan for the above I can be satisfied with, I will be a very happy camper. Deep inside, I really don't want to give up on my dream of "someday" having a TOC19 layout, even if it means a much smaller layout.

All fer now!

Andre



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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 02/23/2021 :  04:06:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
How long would trains be?


Country: USA | Posts: 7451 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/23/2021 :  09:02:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Mike!

For those times I want to just see them run using the continuous connection: As many as the selected engine can pull.

During an op session: To hoist them up and over the divide via switchbacks, I'm shooting for 4' clearance on the tail tracks. According to my measurements, 4' will hold one Bachmann NT 4-4-0 w/tender, and eight Bachmann/AHM 34' cars. (19th century modeling ever ceases to amaze me in regards to bang for the buck, i.e., capacities per foot.) Seeing as I'll likely be dealing with 4% grades, I figure a pair of engines, one on the head end, one on the rear, the combo might get 6 cars up and over the divide. I know that one of my Bachmann 4-4-0's can only manage about 3 or 4 cars on my 2.9% Ozark Sub layout.

I'm not going to worry myself with gradient tonnage testing and such. IF I get a trackplan and if I go forward with the concept, I will build the track work in such a fashion that I find personally entertaining, shooting for about 4% - 4.3% max, and let the chips fall where they may in regards to the tonnage ratings. Should it be too easy, then it will be time to add a bit of weight to the house cars (like 1/4 oz) and some weight in the replaceable open top loads (likely 1/2 oz), as I am doing on my KC&G layout. (Except the additional weight is substantially more for the KC&G and its MU diesels than I just proposed.)

My theoretical guesstimates compare favorably with the Northern Pacific's "Stampede Pass" switchbacks. Those switchbacks peaked at over 5% and a pair of truly huge (for 1886) 2-10-0's were used. As I recall, the NP's modus operandi allowed for 2 engines and about 7 cars to make the trip over the switchbacks.

Next I'll recap my era considerations/etc. Seeing as I tow a pretty tight line on my KC&G 1964 era, I'm going to loosen the noose, so to speak, if I get to have a TOC19 "Colorado" layout.

Good question! I like input that coerces me to do a more thorough job of thinking through certain aspects of my layout/theme/etc idea.

Andre



Edited by - OK Hogger on 02/23/2021 09:04:41 AM

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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 02/23/2021 :  09:25:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
If you build your switchbacks along the 12’ wall with 4’ legs, you have about 6’ of grade between turnouts. An average grade of 4% gives you a rise of 2.88”. You’ll need vertical easements at each end so the grade will exceed 4% midway.

How much total rise do you want?

How much are you planning to descend on the other side of the mountain?

Mike



Country: USA | Posts: 7451 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/23/2021 :  10:24:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi again Mike!

Pointed questions. That's good.

The main will be at 0". I'll try to hold the elevation change over the divide to about 10" - 11". I'm hoping to incorporate a total of six switches for the switchbacks:

Westbound Ascent:

* Switch 1 (the one off the main).
* Switch 2 w/tail.
* Switch 3 w/tail.

Summit

Westbound Descent:

* Switch 4 w/tail.
* Switch 5 w/tail.
* Switch 6 (rejoining the main).

Think: Stampede Pass, only in the Rockies.

This is probably one of the most challenging track plan situations I've ever faced, but I'm "sort of" looking forward to it.

Dirt bikes are loaded, leaving in a few with the wife to spend the day out in the mountains aboard our dirt bikes. It will be late this afternoon when we return. Once settled back in for the night, I want to share my very relaxed theme "concept".

Andre




Edited by - OK Hogger on 02/23/2021 10:28:41 AM

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