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Posted - 01/01/2019 :  1:42:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by hminky

Originally posted by railman28

Very dramatic images. Thanks for sharing them. I have found these "modeling" very useful in the past.

Harold is your guild on improving the electrical pick-up of the Bachmann Americans still available?

All my new stuff is at:


The wipers is at:



Thank you

It's only make-believe

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OK Hogger

Posted - 01/01/2019 :  2:38:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Already showing lots of promise! Love the equipment and the stub switches.

I don't recognize some of the land forms, though. Have you "personalized" some of the land forms?

Also, is that TANE?

EDIT: Nevermind, I saw sentence between pics I missed first time through. It is TANE.

Lastly, do you do anything in MSTS/OR anymore?

I would like to have a version of Tranz "one of these days"... but I have so many interests I enjoy it's now a matter of "which one?" to invest my hobby time into.


Edited by - OK Hogger on 01/01/2019 2:40:54 PM

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OK Hogger

Posted - 01/01/2019 :  3:45:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

As mentioned, the more I mull over this "dual era" concept, the more I'm seeing it as the salvation of my TOC19 hopes n' dreams. The only "give away" will be Colorado. That's a significant give away, but, as I've reminded myself (and mentioned here), the railroading in the Ozarks is what birthed my love of TOC19 anyway. It wasn't until many years later that an appreciation for Colorado came into the picture.

The early (for the Ozarks) railroading has a charm all its own. For example...

Here's the summit town of Winslow, Arkansas, circa 1890s or early 1900s:

Winslow is one of my "formative" locations, in that I was aboard a Frisco "Winslow Turn" when the love of mountain railroading was birthed in me way back in November of 1974. I went on to have a second career in railroading on those same rails, and ran trains to and through Winslow for over a decade.

Thus, even with my proto-lanced diesel era Kansas City & Gulf, my "summit" town will draw inspiration from Winslow.

The power for my TOC19 era theme can also influenced by TOC19 Frisco power if I desire. (As well as other influences.) Even staying among the Frisco, one can have an antique look:

Or even something more "modern" looking:

A few items will pose some chin scratching, but I think solutions can be found:

Problem: Water tanks and coaling platforms.

Solution: Embed the piers for the plastic kit water tanks into the terrain. Thus the tanks can be removed/reset onto the embedded piers as needed. When removed for the diesel era, said piers simply indicate where the old abandoned water tanks used to be. Same for the coaling platforms, except I will likely just use foliage bits glued to the coaling platform's posts to camouflage the fact they're sitting ON the terrain and not IN the terrain.

Problem: Turning facilities at the end terminals.

Solution: There will be reversing loops at each end of the line for ease in reversing entire trains (for the stage tracks) in between operating sessions. When absolutely necessary to turn an engine DURING an operating session, I can use the partially hidden return loop as a partially hidden "wye" and all is good.

Problem: Turning facilities at the summit.

Solution: The turntable at Winslow was pulled early on, and the helper engines simply backed down the grade to the helper town of Chester, Arkansas. I will do likewise and have no turntable at the summit. This MIGHT even be a plus in that it gives me the opportunity to either create my own "helper" engine (ala' a double Fairlie), or simply equip a couple of tender engines with oil lamp back up lights on the tenders and use those in helper service.

To quote an old TV weekly serial opening "We have the technology."

All fer now. This one's getting a bit long.


Edited by - OK Hogger on 01/01/2019 3:47:33 PM

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Posted - 01/01/2019 :  5:44:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit hminky's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by OK Hogger

I don't recognize some of the land forms, though. Have you "personalized" some of the land forms?

Lastly, do you do anything in MSTS/OR anymore

Probably differences in the DEM data. Also the Trainz world origin doesn't really work so one has to guesstimate locations.

Always loved the Ozark Northern, runs great in Open Rails. Open Rails is a great update to run MSTS assets. ON was the first addon I bought in the virtual world.

Also used the DEM data in Railworks.

Thanks for your efforts

Edited by - hminky on 01/01/2019 6:20:56 PM

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OK Hogger

Posted - 01/01/2019 :  9:05:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Howdy Harold!

Ah! Now I see where your lead ON shot was taken! By comparison, the Trainz DEM looks pretty stinkin' close to my MSTS DEM in your Trainz ON shots.

I now think that last shot you originally posted wasn't on your Trainz ON, was it? I didn't recognize that mountain peak on the right of the track.

You're more than welcome on my "efforts" part. It's very gratifying that you're still enjoying my ON route.

If you don't have all of my VSC products, just say the word and you're welcome to any/all gratis. Simply shoot me a PM or email and I'll forward you the links for any of my products you don't have. It's a small way of saying THANK YOU for all you've done within the hobby of trains, be it V scale or model trains.


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OK Hogger

Posted - 01/03/2019 :  11:58:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Additional TOC19 musings...

No abatement in the idea. Instead, there's been a bit of refinement.

Plausible connections:

IF I want to touch base with a prototype connection that connected with Kansas City, and IF I want the northern terminal to be near Springfield, MO, then the best likelihood for a "friendly" connection to the north would be the prototype Kansas City, Clinton & Springfield RR. It apparently arrived in Springfield around 1886.

However, there's nothing that says my mythical line didn't originate earlier, for the Frisco was westward through Springfield, MO by 1871. This could theoretically put my line in business before the Frisco built its southward extension through NW AR and southwest into (and thru) Indian Territory (Oklahoma), which the Frisco accomplished by the late 1880s.

Also of note is that the Little Rock & Fort Smith, building west from Little Rock, AR, reached Van Buren, AR on January 30, 1879 (rails had passed through Clarksville, AR by June 1873). This means there would already be rails through the Ozark, AR to Russellville, AR portion of the LR&FS's line by 1878.

In view of the above, I COULD theorize that "my" Ozark line started construction from the Springfield region in the late 1878, and pushed southward toward the Arkansas River to connect with the Little Rock & Fort Smith that was building west toward Van Buren, AR.

The above two happenings means that I also COULD model the line as it was in the early 1880s as being somewhat a bridge line between the Frisco and the LR&FS. This would give me the ability to have wood burning funnel stack 4-4-0's.

HOWEVER, doing so would put a significant limit on the types of rolling stock I could run, as well as increasing the work needed on MDC Old Timers in order to make them look more "period correct" for the early 1880s. (Shortening the smoke box primarily.)

Seeing as I'm giving up Colorado, and seeing as perhaps trying to stay with wood burning funnel stack locomotives is quite limiting, then perhaps it behooves me to seriously consider modeling the late 1880s, or even the early 1890s.

Doing so would broaden my locomotive types/sizes selection as well as broaden the scope of my rolling stock options. Such a date would also give me an option to retain the use of MDC 36' cars. That would be a time saver and therefore a plus, too.

SO... instead of surmounting the lofty Rockies in search of fabulous wealth of the gold and silver boom, my Ozark line would be more of a "beans n' taters" kind of line that ran among the hillbilly's of the Ozarks and would therefore have a much more "down home" feel to it. Of course, there would be very different back stories between the two themes, with both having compelling qualities in their own right.

Bottom line:

I think what this all means is that it's time to go out to my hobby house and inventory my TOC19 engine projects and rolling stock to see exactly what all I have on hand and then let this weigh into my decisions.

All fer now!


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OK Hogger

Posted - 01/03/2019 :  8:09:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow. I have more TOC19 stuff than I realized!


(NOTE: "BD" = Brass tired drivers. "NS" = Nickel silver tired drivers. "OT" = MDC "Old Timer" series.)

1 AHM "Casey Jones" basket case

2 NIB Arbour Models Brooks Mogul kits

4 Bachmann NT 4-4-0's w/DCC and Sound

1 Bachmann NT 4-4-0 DC Needs DCC/Sound

1 Mantua 4-6-0

1 Mantua 4-8-0

1 Mantua 0-6-0 roller (frame, drivers, valving, cylinders, no motor.)

1 MDC OT 2-6-0 w/Sagami 16x30 w/51" BD: Good candidate for continued progress.

1 MDC OT 2-8-0 w/frame milled to become BM&N 2-6-2. Sagami 16x30 w/BD: Can use the Sagami and drivers on an on-hand 2-6-0 frame to yield a 51" driver 2-6-0.

1 MDC OT 2-6-0 w/51" BD. Purchased used off eBay. Superstructure has issues: Loose headlight, etc. Poorly weathered. Likely needs to have paint stripped and start over.

1 MDC OT 2-6-0 w/51" temporary BD w/AHM Genoa body w/no motor. Good candidate for a non-MDC boiler engine. Still needs lots of attention.

1 MDC 0-6-0 milled to become a 2-6-2. Open can motor w/51" BD: Not much future for it.

1 MDC OT RTR 2-8-0 w/NS drivers: Would need DCC/Sound, some minor details and relettered.

1 MDC 0-6-0 modded into 2-6-0 w/51" BD: No motor. Frame milled for Sagami 16x30. Wouldn't take much to make it ready for DCC/Sound.

1 MDC OT 2-8-0 roller w/BD: Have the needed superstructure parts to use to complete.

1 MDC OT 2-6-0 frame for 63" drivers: Don't see a future for it.

1 MDC OT 2-6-0 w/51" NS drivers. Small MDC open frame motor. Needs tuned and DCC/Sound. May want to repower it.

1 MDC OT 2-8-0 w/Sagami 16x30 w/BD: Needs completed and DCC/Sound installed.

1 MDC OT NIB 2-6-0 w/BD: Needs finished and DCC/Sound

1 MDC OT 2-8-0 boxed no drivers. (Drivers used on a different project.)

Plus various MDC tenders, boilers, cabs, nickel silver and brass tender trucks/wheels. In addition, several AHM 4-4-0's and tenders, some Mantua/etc body parts and such.

MDC OT Rolling Stock

21 MDC OT frames w/truss beams and truss rods. Some painted. All would need plastic wheels replaced w/steel.

8 MDC OT Decorated Reefers. Need brake staffs and plastic wheels replaced w/steel.

11 MDC OT undec Boxcar shells. No doors on many. Have good supply of MDC doors in parts drawers.

3 MDC OT various reefer shells

6 MDC OT frames w/scratcbuilt gondola bodies. Lettered and weathered. Need plastic wheels replaced w/steel.

4 MDC OT frames w/scratchbuilt gondola bodies. Undec. Need paint/decals/weathered and plastic wheels replaced w/steel.

3 MDC OT shortened cabeese lettered for BM&N. If insufficient sentimental value, could possibly be re-purposed via repainted/re-lettered.

The above, in conjunction with my on-hand train set cars (both ready to roll and still untouched), will give me enough stuff to get started with when the time comes! (I need to inventory my train set cars, too.)

All fer now.


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OK Hogger

Posted - 01/04/2019 :  09:13:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh, just rediscovered 7 NIB MDC OT reefers (nice ones, too!) and 1 NIB MDC OT cattle car.

The entire concept is coming together in my mind. I now have an acceptable (to me) back story for the "origins" of my TOC19 through-the-Ozarks line that's correlated among regional prototype rail history. (For some reason I really dig the mental aspect of proto/free lancing.)

ALMOST settled on a name for the enterprise. Topping the short list:

Ozark & Arkansas Valley
Ozark & Southern

On the "map", the line would be about 160 miles in length and run from rail connections at Springfield, MO, south toward the Arkansas River to a connection with the Little Rock & Fort Smith RR (an actual line) as well as a river boat port for shipping to the Gulf. The theoretical construction of the line is choreographed among the prototypes. Therefore, it began constructing south out of Springfield, MO in the mid-1870s and arrived at the Arkansas Valley region toward the late 1870s. Operationally, such a prototype would have broken their line into two divisions, each about 80 miles in length. I would be modeling only a small portion of the "Northern" division, the portion containing the ruling grade of the entire line.

Yup, this is going to save TOC19 for me, and I can already see that I'm going to have a ton of fun with the concept.

Later gators!


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Engine Wiper

Posted - 01/07/2019 :  11:09:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good for you, Andre! Best wishes as you move forward and accomplish this layout that will let you dip your toes in both eras.

Springfield & Southwest - The Line of the Ozarks
The Ozark Road
The Dolomite Road
Grand Ozark
Great Ozark
Western Ozark
Arkansas & Gulf

If you're like me, the planning and dreaming are loads of fun.

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OK Hogger

Posted - 01/08/2019 :  5:23:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, as I fully expected, this "Colorado" thing isn't simply going away quietly into the night.

Maybe I'm going to have to quit going to some of the websites I go to!

Case in point...

Saw a video of a chap's model railroad. The modeling therein was good. However, what really made me wistful was his back drop in one of the video scenes. Here's a screen capture:

Swap out the foreground deciduous trees with pointy evergreens and I'd be good with that!

Bottom line...

Colorado: Get thee behind me Satan.


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Michael Hohn

Posted - 01/08/2019 :  7:06:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote

I canít count the number of times Iíve strongly considered a major change in my modeling and after a few days or weeks gone back to my original plans because I was reminded why I had the old plans to begin with.

But I must also point out that the proportion of modelers who could even come close to that backdrop is 1 out of 1000. Maybe youíre one of those people.


Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. James Baldwin

Edited by - Michael Hohn on 01/08/2019 7:07:20 PM

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OK Hogger

Posted - 01/08/2019 :  7:54:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I understand Mike, oh how I understand.

I know in my head that I'm making the BEST decision to leave Colorado behind and move back into a realm that I have the skill sets to accomplish. Still, though... something like that backdrop scene tugs at me.

Frankly, though, my vacillation over Colorado has been one of the causes for lack of a functional layout for going on 20 years now.

Looking back I can't believe how much time and money I've spent on Sn3 (the first Colorado "cold feet" experience), 3-rail, S scale (the scale side of S, not Hi-Rail or Flyer), et al. I can't help but feel that IF I want a FUNCTIOING LAYOUT, well, it's the time in my life that I need to gather up and move on.

Re: Backdrop...

I don't know if that back drop is hand painted or a commercial product. I've asked the layout's creator on FB. If he responds with a reply, perhaps we'll know. I probably don't need to hear that it's a commercial product line and links me to it.

I came the closest to having Colorado on a small TOC19 Sn3 layout I was building... but the labor intensity (had to scratch build almost everything), and the fear of painting/creating Colorado scenery caused the cold feet and I scuttled the idea. I was very close to laying track:

A few weeks later after those pictures were taken, the backdrop/sky was in place, and I was starting to make the hardboard profiles that I was going to use to hide the window and electrical cabinet:

When it was time to sling paint and create Colorado on those profile boards and the backdrop as a whole, well, that was when the layout came to a screeching halt.

C'est la vie!


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OK Hogger

Posted - 01/09/2019 :  08:30:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

The backdrop in question is definitely a photo graphic mural. Here's a pic that shows the top edge of the photo mural:

Note that it is two sheets of the same picture, with one sheet "mirrored". You can easily see the seam near the middle of the backdrop. (Which points out an "issue" with using a mirrored image.)

So, either he had the backdrop custom printed from his own photos, or it's a backdrop available "somewhere" on the 'net, and he purchased the standard and mirrored product.

Either way, I'm going to do my best to stay my course and not be lured off into the Colorado direction again.

The direction I've chosen will allow both diesels and TOC19. A Colorado layout would exclude my appreciation for Ozark diesel railroading, and thus eventually I would face that "to be or not to be" angst again.

What a tangled web we silly modeler's can weave for ourselves!


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Posted - 01/09/2019 :  08:42:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit hminky's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Being brutal,sorry, but that backdrop adds nothing to the layout.

It distracts totally from the built part of the layout. Photo murals usually don't blend but upstage the scene.

Having done bad backdrops, subtle is better.


Backdrops should never be noticed.

Few people can paint majestic mountains.


Edited by - hminky on 01/09/2019 08:43:30 AM

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OK Hogger

Posted - 01/09/2019 :  09:38:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eye of the beholder thing.

I like it, but not as executed.

When it comes to Colorado, IMHO, a good backdrop is an integral part of modeling Colorado. At least, I intended for it to be for me.

There are definitely pros/cons to back drops, and many opinions about them. I've seen photo backdrops used very effectively (on the Mike Confalone's Allagash RR, for example), and I've seen them used badly. I've seen nicely painted backdrops, and some not-so-nice.

At the end of the day the owner of the layout has to be happy with the results.

Have fun!


Edited by - OK Hogger on 01/09/2019 12:02:50 PM

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