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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 04/16/2015 :  2:43:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CavalryTrooper25

Sven;

Not a criticism, just an fyi, everything I have read in the last couple years suggests that the roofwalks were not painted at all. This is because paint at this timeframe was high gloss only, so when it got wet, or snowy, it got slippery as all get out. As a result brakemen moving on top of cars were more likely to slip, and fall off, so the roofwalks were left unpainted for better traction. Flat paint as we know it today is really a post WWII innovation. Even into the early 60s, the U.S. military still used a semi gloss paint on vehicles, and field equipment, which was the closest to flat they could get. True flat paint did not come into general use until the late 60s.

Horse





but we still need to use flat paint on our model for scaling because even glossy paint doesn't look glossy from 200 feet. By the late 60's on the west coast roof walks were being painted. They would throw sand into the wet paint not only on the walkways but on the whole roof to help the brakeman's traction. They called it sanding.


It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 5678 Go to Top of Page

masonamerican
Fireman



Posted - 04/16/2015 :  4:36:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CavalryTrooper25

Sven;

Not a criticism, just an fyi, everything I have read in the last couple years suggests that the roofwalks were not painted at all. This is because paint at this timeframe was high gloss only, so when it got wet, or snowy, it got slippery as all get out. As a result brakemen moving on top of cars were more likely to slip, and fall off, so the roofwalks were left unpainted for better traction. Flat paint as we know it today is really a post WWII innovation. Even into the early 60s, the U.S. military still used a semi gloss paint on vehicles, and field equipment, which was the closest to flat they could get. True flat paint did not come into general use until the late 60s.

Horse





Thanks for the input. When you mention it I have read about that on the Early rail forum.
We will see, either I repaint it weathered wood or I go with the option that the railroads shop who built the car put sand in the paint.

Håkan



Country: Sweden | Posts: 1778 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 04/16/2015 :  5:42:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I can remember the discussion on painted/unpainted/sanded roof walks several years ago. I did a search and it seems to have started with message 33188. There might be more than one discussion and I'm not sure anything was resolved.

Mike


_______________________________________
And we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashin' — Bob Dylan

Country: USA | Posts: 6602 Go to Top of Page

CavalryTrooper25
Crew Chief

Posted - 04/17/2015 :  10:25:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by railman28

quote:
Originally posted by CavalryTrooper25

Sven;

Not a criticism, just an fyi, everything I have read in the last couple years suggests that the roofwalks were not painted at all. This is because paint at this timeframe was high gloss only, so when it got wet, or snowy, it got slippery as all get out. As a result brakemen moving on top of cars were more likely to slip, and fall off, so the roofwalks were left unpainted for better traction. Flat paint as we know it today is really a post WWII innovation. Even into the early 60s, the U.S. military still used a semi gloss paint on vehicles, and field equipment, which was the closest to flat they could get. True flat paint did not come into general use until the late 60s.

Horse





but we still need to use flat paint on our model for scaling because even glossy paint doesn't look glossy from 200 feet. By the late 60's on the west coast roof walks were being painted. They would throw sand into the wet paint not only on the walkways but on the whole roof to help the brakeman's traction. They called it sanding.



Bob;

I don't disagree, as most of the model paints available in matching colors are flat, with some notable exceptions. Besides, even gloss paint will fade/flatten in weather. My point was about new paint, on new cars, and in particular application of that paint on the wooden roofwalks. I don't recall where I read it, but there was mention of some new cars built by PRR at the Altoona Car shops in the 1880s, getting their class photo taken, and the caption specifically mentions that the roofwalks were painted for the picture, and as soon as the pic had been taken, the painted roofwalks were removed, and replaced with unpainted wood, "for safety reasons".

As to roofwalks in the 60s, most by then were steel, and many were the open grate style, so traction was much less of an issue. However, I do agree that the wooden roofwalks of that later time period, even in the 50s probably had the safety tread paint, IE sand added. IIRC 3M began offering that in the early 50s, as my maternal grandfather referenced it in his diary when the floor in his lab was repainted over the two week summer shutdown. It was battleship grey paint, with "grit" mixed in for safety traction. It is funny what you learn reading old diaries.

Horse




Edited by - CavalryTrooper25 on 04/17/2015 10:26:47 AM

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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 04/18/2015 :  1:04:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just a small clarification in what I wrote. When I write the 70's mid 80's I talking the 1870's and 1880's I don't comment on or do much research on anything in the 20th century.
Also, because my model is set in the west I center my research on practice there under the neighborhood Theory which is people have a tendency to copy their neighbors. When I look east it in generalities. I'm looking for color and styles trends only.


It's only make-believe

Edited by - railman28 on 04/18/2015 1:12:31 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 5678 Go to Top of Page

CavalryTrooper25
Crew Chief

Posted - 04/19/2015 :  8:57:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by railman28

Just a small clarification in what I wrote. When I write the 70's mid 80's I talking the 1870's and 1880's I don't comment on or do much research on anything in the 20th century.
Also, because my model is set in the west I center my research on practice there under the neighborhood Theory which is people have a tendency to copy their neighbors. When I look east it in generalities. I'm looking for color and styles trends only.



Point taken!

Thanks

Horse




Country: | Posts: 509 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 06/07/2015 :  6:40:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I noticed today that Bitter Creek Models now has information about their rolling stock kits here: http://bittercreekmodels.com/page3.html

Mike



_______________________________________
And we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashin' — Bob Dylan

Country: USA | Posts: 6602 Go to Top of Page

CavalryTrooper25
Crew Chief

Posted - 11/02/2015 :  10:30:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That is a beautiful car!

So, would you like to interchange a PRR XA (built from a BTS kit by me), for one of yours like the above?

That would look really great sitting in my yard (as I do not have a full layout yet.)

Horse




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SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 11/24/2016 :  2:38:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Y'all,

I'm interested in the Bitter Creek Models car kits. I heard from someone that the pieces are peel and stick. Is that true/correct?

Thanks,

Manny



Country: USA | Posts: 437 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 11/24/2016 :  2:59:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Manny,

No. Here's where I built one of the boxcars: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43866&whichpage=11

Hope this helps.

Mike


_______________________________________
And we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashin' — Bob Dylan

Country: USA | Posts: 6602 Go to Top of Page

deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 11/24/2016 :  10:43:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Even when the roofwalk was painted, it got a lot of wear-and-tear and would often look lighter colored than the rest of the roof.

dave


Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)

Country: USA | Posts: 8556 Go to Top of Page
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