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coal drag
New Hire
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 Posted - 05/05/2012 : 8:16:33 PM
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I have an HO layout with an oval shaped helix. Due to the configuration it would be advantageous to have a single crossover on two of the levels on the tangent sections. Two #6s would fit, but not #8s.The switch machines would have to go on the outside perimeter, which the more I think about it; the more I can live with it. I’d really like to put them on the inside, but as of yet haven’t figure out how to mount them. Am I opening up a can of worms?? The helix has 25/28 inch radiuses. That’s all that would fit for the given room I have.
Kevin Herr
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Country: USA
| Posts: 25 |
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clif
Engine Wiper
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Posted - 05/05/2012 : 10:06:32 PM
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A possible solution might be a Walthers curved switch, if I remember right #7 is 24-28 in radius, for the inside and outside curves. a #7 could be used for the outside track also. This would allow you to use the switches on the curves. a left hand feeding a right hand would allow a crossover or visa versa (right hand feeding left hand switch) if you need the cross over going the opposite direction.
I am currently installing peco large radius switches (60" outside radius) in a helix I am building to create a passing siding for each level. I used peco over walthers because my helix radius are 42 and 44 inches. With four levels in the helix I have four added sidings to use as passing sidings and a place to store extra trains.
I hope this helps.
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Country: USA
| Posts: 209 |
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coal drag
New Hire
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Posted - 05/05/2012 : 10:17:37 PM
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If it happens, I have enough room to put in straight ones. I already have at least 15+ #6 switches that I took out when I replaced 3 double crossovers with #8s and eliminated some others. $120+ vs. free, it's a no brainer when I've been out of work for quite some time.
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Country: USA
| Posts: 25 |
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Neil M
Fireman
Premium Member
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Posted - 05/05/2012 : 11:03:45 PM
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I don't see why it would be a problem other than the length of the locos and cars you are running. Avoid running anything that would struggle to get through the #6 turnouts on that grade in any other situation I guess.
It sounds like you will have access to the turnouts for maintenance and what-not from the centre of the helix.
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| Built a waterfront HO layout in Ireland http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22161 but now making a start in On30 in Australia |
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Country: Australia
| Posts: 2173 |
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Steam Nut
Fireman
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Posted - 05/06/2012 : 09:52:03 AM
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I will have to get PC Matt to post a pic of how I did his, He has several on the inside of his helix. But you can run a plastic hollow rod under the other track and then brass rod the make the switch throw longer. Also its the same thing Harsco did with his hand throws to move them to the front of the layout.
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| Steam Lives! |
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Country: USA
| Posts: 1272 |
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desertdrover
Engineer
Premium Member
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Posted - 05/06/2012 : 10:57:15 AM
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Here is one topic that would put the machine off to the side. http://www.railroad-line.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18243
Also Cliff Powers had a helix.
But I'm thinking you might want this setup.
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 Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast |
Edited by - desertdrover on 05/06/2012 11:29:28 AM |
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Country: USA
| Posts: 11258 |
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maandg
Engine Wiper
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 Posted - 05/06/2012 : 11:32:56 AM
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Kevin, my MA&G incorporates a double track helix which serves three levels. “Bridges” made from 2 x 4’s span the doorway and connect the helix to the layout eastbound. The opposite side of the helix exits across or above my desk westbound. These photos will help identify these areas.
These were my design dilemmas.......
When MA&G/Southern/GM&O trains leave staging over shared trackage, they take the OUTSIDE track of the helix, traverse 3 laps, then exit on the second level. After making the run over the second level, they re-enter the helix at the same point they left by way of a strategically placed 30 degree crossing (the helix briefly levels out at that point). The trains then negotiate 5 more laps until they enter the third level. You will also notice in the photos that I made provisions for continuous running on all three levels independent of each other. This is because the layout was completed one level at a time beginning with the lower level. I was always able to enjoy just running trains while construction was underway on the next level. These "continuous running" tracks will not be used during Op Sessions, however.
Because I model the New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal, I needed a way for all of the foreign road passenger trains (SP, MP, T&P, KCS, IC, GM&O, L&N and Southern) to go from staging DIRECTLY to the third level. That's where the inside track of the helix comes into play. This track bypasses the second level entirely, preventing these other trains from traveling over the MA&G mainline. I thought it was a pretty cool idea.
This photo should help clarify my track design.
Here are photos of my helix before and after I added a Masonite fascia. It created a “Window Box” effect which I like very much.
The flat turnouts "in" the helix have worked flawlessly for 11 years. I hope this information was helpful!
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Cliff Powers
The Mississippi Alabama & Gulf
Please visit my layout website at
www.magnoliaroute.com
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Edited by - maandg on 05/06/2012 11:35:01 AM |
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coal drag
New Hire
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Posted - 05/06/2012 : 12:45:43 PM
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I'm not concerned about throw rods, I'll just cut a groove in the cork with maybe a tube to keep the throw rod from flexing as Steam Nut suggests. I’ve done similar things before. No hand throws are allowed on the main as my ultimate goal to have computer control of a train and block signals. I was mostly concerned about the forces with putting a switch on a grade. If others have done it, it should be OK. I had always thought putting a switch on a grade was not a very good idea, but I guess I am being too conservative. I need to look at some of these photos and see if I can get a plan on mounting the switch machine on the inside of the helix. It’s lined with poster board on the inside because of the sharper curves I had to use. It eliminates falling objects from the occasional string line when I go crazy on train length. Considering that it goes around the chimney of the house, there’s not much access anyway. Due to a relatively short reversing section I have a “no helper allowed” rule. I have a problem with it now as it is if I run 3 or 4 units up front in the opposite direction from normal travel, which would become a reality with the added crossovers. So I guess I’ll have to fix that too. Not really looking forward to that one, but since I have to rewire the power leads anyway, might as well figure that out too.
Thanks for your replies,
Kevin
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Country: USA
| Posts: 25 |
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Carrie Creek
Crew Chief
Premium Member
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Posted - 05/06/2012 : 2:55:16 PM
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Kevin, as long as there is no grade change thru the turnout it makes no difference if it is on a grade. As a rule of thumb there should not be any grade change atleast not closer than the length of your longest wheelbase. That way it will be "flat" thru the turnout.
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Phil
POR (press on regardless) |
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Country: USA
| Posts: 948 |
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desertdrover
Engineer
Premium Member
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Posted - 05/07/2012 : 12:17:39 PM
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Kevin, if by grade you mean the helix grade, than it's not a problem for the switches.
Like Phil (Carrie Creek) said as long as the switch is flat up through the helix, it's not going to hurt anything. This is the same helix as the tortoise switch pictures posted in my above post.
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Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast |
Edited by - desertdrover on 05/07/2012 12:18:15 PM |
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Country: USA
| Posts: 11258 |
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coal drag
New Hire
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Posted - 05/07/2012 : 3:28:14 PM
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Thanks for the posts/pictures. The switches will be lying flat on the roadbed so I shouldn’t have any problems. I’ll need to scab some ¼” ply to the underneath of the sub roadbed for outriggers to mount the torti. I wasn’t planning on needing to buy any mounts. I'll see if I can come up with some piano wire long enough to make the throw rods in one piece and mount them vertically. I really don’t think that’ll happen though. Maybe I’ll get started in a few days and see how it goes. Gluing the outriggers on is going to be interesting, no room to temporarily shoot a couple of screws to hold it tight till the glue dries. Guess I’ll need another DS64, BDL168, and SEC8 just for the helix, I already have those though. I bought extras when I had the money just for situations like this.
Kevin
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Country: USA
| Posts: 25 |
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