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 Repowering an HO Ken Kidder 2-6-0
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Greg Rich
Engine Wiper

Posted - 11/09/2011 :  12:04:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In keeping with our new Early Rail Forum, I decided to start a thread on one of my "bench" projects.( As opposed to my "layout projects" and "Honey-do projects" (of which there is no shortage I might add))

About 2 years ago I was lucky when I acquired this little HO scale brass loco as a basket case. It was all there; but disassembled and with some broken solder joints. I paid the guy his $5.00 and the little tea kettle followed me home. From there it went into the cupboard with the other orphans and waited for its time in the sun.

Having spent quite a bit of time on what I term "large muscle activities" I decided it was time to look for a challenging "bench project", so I dug out the Ken Kidder loco and surveyed it once again. By the way, I found out that KK also offered that same loco but in HOn3. Same boiler,cab & tender shell.

I brushed off the dust of the ages, reconnected the motor leads, oiled it, reassembled the engine and tender and set it up on the test track. It ran like a Jack Rabbit. In doing this I learned that; the drivers are still in quarter with no shorts, the rods are not bound up, and the gear set is~~ok. But the old open frame motor has got to go.

Here is what she looks like, complete with a pilot coupler that looks like it was built for "ramming".

More to come,

Greg Rich
President & Chief Wheel Knocker
New Baltimore & Fair Haven Rwy.

Country: | Posts: 389

George D
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 11/09/2011 :  12:10:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good looking loco, Greg. How does she run?

I think you need to sacrifice function for aesthetics and go with a dummy front coupler.

George



Country: USA | Posts: 11302 Go to Top of Page

MisterBill
Section Hand



Posted - 11/09/2011 :  1:07:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No, keep it. That rammer looks bad ass! I've heard that the railroads had all kinds of coupler variants for odd switching situations. This could have been a retrofit from the old bar link that it probably would have been built with. Anyway, cool engine Greg. Layout looks nice too. Lets see some of your cars.


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dave1905
Crew Chief



Posted - 11/09/2011 :  2:41:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I also have one of those that I got for a song, primarily because it had a dead short in it. After spending 10 minutes reversing one tender truck so the insulated wheels were on the same side, I had a "working" model. I am eager to see how you upgrade the engine.

I also want to repower mine (eventually) but plan to remove the pilot truck and put on a footboard pilot, converting it to an 0-6-0.

At a swap meet earlier this year I was able to buy an Aristo 2-8-0 and 4-2-2. Both were basket case engines. The 4-2-2 "bicycle" engine is an actual P&R prototype. The original was sold the Eames company to run a demonstrator train for the Eames Vaccuum Brake system. I am going to take the boiler and modify it to fit on a Mantua 0-6-0 mechanism, and add a pilot truck to make an early Baldwin 2-6-0 that was ordered by the W&N (my road) then the order was canceled and the engines went to the P&R who later bought the W&N and the 2-6-0 ended up in Wilmington anyway. The 2-8-0 boiler will probably end up on a Roundhouse mechanism as W&N #10.


Dave H.
Keep 'em painted side up

Country: USA | Posts: 995 Go to Top of Page

Greg Rich
Engine Wiper

Posted - 11/09/2011 :  7:22:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
George,Dave & Bill
Right now, she runs like an engine built about 1962 or so, kind of balky until I nudge her, then she takes off. I have some tall plans for this old girl. Eldon, from Micro-motion in Texas has a new motor in the mail. He specializes in top notch can motors with neodynium magnets. Space age stuff! The one coming for this engine will take up less space than the current open frame motor.(cab detail and added weight???) I'm also working on more electrical pickups. Ultimately this little Lokey will have electrical pick-ups on all the wheels except for one driver, tender wheels included. There is also SoundTraxx Tsunami decoder and a little speaker to shoehorn into the tender. AND . . I would like to experiment with a surface mount LED for the headlight. I've added a hotlink showing how to solder these TINY(!!) LEDS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlad2Dl1A4&feature=related
If you've never seen this guy's work, it's well worth your "root'in around" time. He's amazingly talented. Just for yuks and grins, Here's another link showing how he animates and lights an HO scale figure, yup, you read right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo31Apzsczc&feature=related
enjoy!

Like I say tall plans.

Regards,
Greg R.



Country: | Posts: 389 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 11/10/2011 :  06:16:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll be watching your progress on this. There was an artical on in one of the magazine (RMC Haywood?) that showed how to mount the coupler on the pilot by modifing the coupler pin. Are you going to paint her in period colors?

It's Only Make Believe

Bob Harris

Country: USA | Posts: 2378 Go to Top of Page

Greg Rich
Engine Wiper

Posted - 11/10/2011 :  07:04:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob,
My but aren't you up and "at'em" early??
I was talking off line to an old friend of mine and we both agreed that something had to be done with that coupler configuration. I thought about adding foot boards, loosing the pilot and moving the coupler box under the pilot deck. But, I liked the pilot and didn't want to mess up the profile of her face. Not to mention the fact that the coupler box would interfere with the movement of the pilot truck.

Well, my friend suggested that I use a piece of square brass tubing mounted under the pilot which would hold a modified KD coupler. Thereby eliminating the coupler box extending out over the pilot. The KD would have the "loop" cut off its end and clearance drilled to accept a 00-90 retaining screw to pass through it.

Good idea, but not a complete fix. The other "got'cha" that presented itself was the coupler clearances from mating rolling stock. You see, the rakish point of the pilot extends far enough out in front as to come in contact with the signal hoses of KD couplers on mating rolling stock. I guess I could cut all the hoses of the 100+ pieces of rolling stock, but that kind of smacks of the tail wagging the dog.

S-o-o-o-o, to make a long story short, the coupler was modified to meet all my criteria. It still extends out front, but has been somewhat "tamed" when compared to the previous.



As far as the colors, the boys in the Fair Haven shops are still negotiating with the front office.

Next up is electrical contacts.

Kind regards,
Greg R.



Country: | Posts: 389 Go to Top of Page

George D
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 11/10/2011 :  07:24:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greg, you might try the #58 coupler, which has a smaller head.

George



Country: USA | Posts: 11302 Go to Top of Page

Greg Rich
Engine Wiper

Posted - 11/10/2011 :  09:00:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
George,
Do you happen to know the shank length and width of a #58? If it has a long enough shank that would help to greatly reduce the "mass" of the coupler out front. I need about 7-8 mm of shank length in order for the coupler to end up in the right place in relation to the pilot prow.

Greg R.



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George D
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 11/10/2011 :  11:21:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greg, their site shows it to be 19/64" from the hole to the base of the coupler head. http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page58.htm

George



Country: USA | Posts: 11302 Go to Top of Page

Greg Rich
Engine Wiper

Posted - 11/10/2011 :  4:16:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks George,
If my rough calculations are correct, that's about 7 1/2 mm's. I'm going to investigate this further.
Thanks again,

Greg R



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scott
Fireman



Posted - 11/11/2011 :  08:28:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nice find on the brass locomotive Greg. You can't beat $5.00 for brass. As far as the coupler is concerned I'd go with the bar for the old link and pin coupler that would just lay on the pilot. There have been some very good ideas on mounting KD's on the pilot tho.

Scott, from the wilds of Carroll County, Ohio

Country: USA | Posts: 3454 Go to Top of Page

dave1905
Crew Chief



Posted - 11/11/2011 :  09:09:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by scott

As far as the coupler is concerned I'd go with the bar for the old link and pin coupler that would just lay on the pilot.

I was think that there ought to be a way to put a #58 on a long bar, without the "air hose" and hinge it to lay on the pilot.

Maybe not a KD at all, maybe just a brass fixture that would engage the KD coupler. coupling would be lifting the bar above the coupler on the car and dropping it onto (and engaging) the coupler of the car. Uncoupling would just be lifting the bar. Entirely manual but much smaller in size.


Dave H.
Keep 'em painted side up

Country: USA | Posts: 995 Go to Top of Page

Greg Rich
Engine Wiper

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  10:42:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott & Dave,
Thank you for your interest.

If there is a better way to add a functional coupler or coupling device to the front of this loco, I'm all for it. This loco will be a working model on my RR so to that end, I need working couplers on both ends.

I looked at a KD N/G coupler. It's a nice small size and it will work with KD #5's and #58's. But the problem with the N/G coupler is that the coupler hand and shank are split. So you need a box.

A link with some sort of hook or claw that would engage a KD might work, but then the operator would have to lift and hold the link in place for the coupling process. There are some "tight" coupling spots on the RR and in the interest of preventing "aww S--t, I'm sorry, did I do that?" and red faces, I'd like to avoid the scenario of the operator trying to hold the link while the loco is moving. If the link were raised permanently, it may be rather "strange" looking.

So, as you can see, I'm in a quandary. Any good ideas are welcome.

Regards,
Greg R.



Country: | Posts: 389 Go to Top of Page

Neil M
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 11/12/2011 :  11:41:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looks nice Greg.

The #58 coupler also couples with the standard #5 (and the narrow gauge coupler) so there is no real benefit to the narrow gauge coupler that I can see (given it needs the box).

I like the link/hook idea. Could you make it with a tight-ish pivot so that when raised it would stay raised but for photos and passenger ops it could be pushed to the lowered position?


Built a waterfront HO layout in Ireland http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22161 but now making a start in On30 in Australia

Country: Australia | Posts: 2271 Go to Top of Page

Greg Rich
Engine Wiper

Posted - 11/13/2011 :  08:45:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Neil,
Thanks for the input on the coupler. I'm going to have to keep "noodling" on this one. I like the idea of the tightly hinged hook that is held in position by friction. So that it can be extended when switching and folded down when not needed. When I'm at the bench, I'll have to mock something up to see if it's feasible.

Meanwhile, I've been working on enhancing the electrical pickups on both the loco and the tender. Because of the short, un-sprung wheelbase of this engine, and the manufacturer's electrical contacts configuration, it will have trouble maintaining electrical contact while traveling the rails. In order to minimize this problem I have added more pick-ups, making all but one wheel electrical pick-ups.

On another forum, I ran across a technique for the fabrication of electrical pick-ups that looks to be both positive and robust. I wish that I could claim it as my own invention, by alas, someone else beat me to the punch. This technique involves brass tubing, small straight pins and KD coupler springs. Basically, The spring is slid onto the straight pin and the pin/spring is slid into a piece of appropriately sized brass tubing. The spring loaded head of the pin is then positioned against the inner surface of the wheel, providing a spring loaded electrical contact. Of course, there are more particulars in the assembly process of the contacts, but as they say, "The devil is in the details" and "A picture is worth a thousand words".

Loco first





As seen in the pictures, the pickups are positioned on the lower brass cover plate of the loco. In order to electrically isolate these pickups from the loco chassis, I soldered a piece of brass tubing to one side of a copper clad circuit board, inserted the spring/pin assembly into the tubing, and, in order to prevent the pin from being launched into the "land of lost socks", I put a slight "retention bend" on the end of the pin. This whole assembly was then positioned on the lower cover plate to allow the head of the pin to contact the inner wheel surface and provide some spring compression. Once positioned, the circuit board assembly was soldered in place to the lower cover plate.
This was then repeated for the front set of drivers and in order to provide electrical continuity, a piece of wire was soldered to both contacts.

A word of caution, if you overheat the tiny spring while soldering, you will anneal it and it will loose its "springy-ness".

If done correctly, this will now provide electrical pick-up to 2 drivers on the Fireman's side of the loco (one rail) and another 3 electrical pick-ups on the Engineer's side (the second rail).

Phew! Did you get all that!??

Next post I'll cover the Tender trucks.

Regards,
Greg Rich
President, Chief Wheelknocker & Loco-smith
New Baltimore & Fair Haven Rwy.



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