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 New 18'-0" boxcar Build
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Author Previous Topic: 1/48, 1/43, 1/50 - 25, 28, 32, 40 mm, figure ref. Topic Next Topic: Coast Line RR vol 7
Page: of 38

Geezer
Engineer



Posted - 09/15/2011 :  10:36:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I dunno Tom....but here's another place for stripwood
(basswood).....Bluejacket Shipcrafters
http://www.bluejacketinc.com
No affiliation, just happy customer.



Country: USA | Posts: 12973 Go to Top of Page

mabloodhound
Fireman



Posted - 09/15/2011 :  10:55:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tom, with the risk of getting chastised by a mod, I'll say the ones I have and that Geezer and Martin built, all used 1/16" thick scribed sides and ends and roof.
It will stay flat and you don't really see the thickness (3" scale).
You would only have to account for that difference in Richard's drawings but 1/16 would work fine.



Country: USA | Posts: 6703 Go to Top of Page

Richard Gardner
Section Hand



Posted - 09/15/2011 :  11:21:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Geezer

Richard....You got the hiccups??? ;-)
I am sorta kinda waiting to see what Tom M comes
up with as to a "quantity" for an order. I already
am waiting on a $100 order from NE supplies....
Question for Richard:P "Is there or will there be
provisions for adding weight to these cars?" Reason I ask,
I have some box cars and flats that are not weighted, and
do not track very well around curves......




Hi Geezer...

Kinda looks like the hiccups doesn't it?... I see we're on page six now, who determines when it goes to another page anyway?

A $100 order seems about right. Scratch-building is like any other investment. It takes awhile to amortize your investment. If you're only going to scratch-build one car, it's not very cost effective. Might as well go out and buy that expensive whatever. On the other hand, further down the line, you'll be cranking these puppies out at a very economical rate! But, hey! It's not all about economics. There's a real rush that comes with holding something you built with your own hands. That, as they say, is "priceless".

I was going to hold off weighing the cars at a later date, remember, this is a "how we are building it" thread. Patience, grasshopper... Might as well get our juices flowing on the subject anyway. On the various groups I belong to, about every 3 months some newbie asks "How much should I weigh my cars?" This, then, re-opens a floodgate of opinions on the subject. Passionately... like the Holy Wars.

So,these are my thoughts on the subject. Mind you, they're MY THOUGHTS, only tossed out to help you decide what YOUR THOUGHTS might be on the subject.

1) How much... Contrary to some commonly held beliefs, tracking is largely influenced by the quality of the track, not the weight of the car. Same with flange depth. There used to be a small video on the P:87 web-site that showed a boxcar with P:87 wheel flanges "flying" around a test track. Weight influences how many cars you want to pull up a grade, how well it will roll down the track (you've been to shows where some car being pulled around the track always seems to have the jitters. Kinda like Fred after too many café au laits.) A little weight will tend to dampen that. Not cure it as there are other factors involved as well. And... ease of coupling. You have to bash into a light car to couple it, not very prototypical. add a little weight, and you can ease up to it and couple like a pro... Also, a little weight to a car feels good in your hand when you pick it up. So... "How much?" is the first question. I use the NMRA guidelines for HO scale cars. That is "1 oz. for the 1st. inch of length, 1/2 oz. for each inch after that, these boxcars should weigh 2.25 oz. You might opt for the guidelines for On3 cars which is considerably heavier. 1 1/2 oz. for the first inch and 3/4 oz. for each inch after that. Using this formula, these boxcars should weigh 5 1/4 oz. So, somewhere between these two should do the trick. Before you do all this, you have to decide which kind of trucks you are going to use. After all, the wood for the cars weighs virtually nothing. As I stated earlier, I'm compiling data to help with that decision. And that decision will influence the weight more than anything.

2) How... We have a lot of options here and I use whatever is handiest or solves the problem best. There are those little 1/4 oz. stick-on weights that A-Line makes (usually available at your LHS), really large fender washers I get at my local hard ware store, pennies, yes pennies, they come free with every purchase and weigh 1/10 oz. and cost pennies apiece and don't forget the lead sheets that can be mounted under the frame (works best for un-laden flat cars).

3) Where... I'm a little eccentric on this one. Popular opinion says to place the weights about the centerline of your car. This just isn't true. Picture a high-wire tight rope walker with his balancing beam. He uses this beam to re-distrubute his center of gravity making it easier for him to walk the walk. Same with rolling stock. Divide the weights into 4s and put them in the far corners of the cars. This will give you a lower center of gravity. My exception to this is when I use those fender washers, they're too big to put into the corners so I usually center them over the truck mounting points so they do not interfere with the mounting screw. If you're using lead sheets under the floor, start with the outside areas first.

That should occupy your attention while I get back to these car floors...

Richard



Edited by - Richard Gardner on 09/15/2011 11:23:47 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 81 Go to Top of Page

Richard Gardner
Section Hand



Posted - 09/15/2011 :  11:28:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mabloodhound

Tom, with the risk of getting chastised by a mod, I'll say the ones I have and that Geezer and Martin built, all used 1/16" thick scribed sides and ends and roof.
It will stay flat and you don't really see the thickness (3" scale).
You would only have to account for that difference in Richard's drawings but 1/16 would work fine.



Dave, you're absolutely right. Nothing I do is cast in stone (mostly strip wood :-) So, if you feel comfortable making some changes, please feel free to do so.

Richard...



Country: USA | Posts: 81 Go to Top of Page

Geezer
Engineer



Posted - 09/15/2011 :  12:02:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Richard - Thanks so much for the "low down" on the weight issue.
Sorry for bringing it up so early. Bun, now that you have made it
clear, and have given me some ideas, I will be quiet... ;-)
Doubling up the 1 1/6 stuff is an old trick for me.....



Country: USA | Posts: 12973 Go to Top of Page

Geezer
Engineer



Posted - 09/15/2011 :  12:33:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Forgot to add - Ordered the scribed siding and
a couple sheets of 1/32 stuff for the roofs...
now, Ihave to start digging up the detail parts....



Country: USA | Posts: 12973 Go to Top of Page

shayman
Section Hand



Posted - 09/16/2011 :  05:29:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Richard,
Thanks for this thread....I love what you're doing with all the details inside and out. I recently had an idea about showing off some of the details rather than building some more rolling stock and never seeing your detail work. Here goes: Somewhere on the layout build a car shop. Of course, the rood would be removable. It would have to be long enough to store 3 cars easily. Just model the progression from bare frame, to wall framing, to outside sheething, and onto finished car. Have the completed car sitting outside on the approach track. It would show the entire assembly process from beginning to end and make a neat diorama (imo). Anyone have a thought or two? The car sitting outside could have some guys on ladders painting the logo on the car, showing it in various stages.
Ok, off my soapbox. Your thoughts, anyone. Be kind.

Mike Reuter



Country: USA | Posts: 92 Go to Top of Page

BBLmber
Fireman



Posted - 09/16/2011 :  07:36:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike , I think that is a great plan and Richards plans and design go along nicely with you building your cars at various stages.

Mark


W,L,&E

Country: USA | Posts: 6444 Go to Top of Page

shayman
Section Hand



Posted - 09/16/2011 :  10:56:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mark,
Thanks for the validation. Now, let's see who actually does it. Thanks for taking it easy on me.

Mike



Country: USA | Posts: 92 Go to Top of Page

Richard Gardner
Section Hand



Posted - 09/16/2011 :  2:00:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Finished the floor and inside panels on the boxcar...

When I used to build architectural models professionally, It was very important that major sub-assemblies accurately fit each other. This was primarily due to the fact that several model makers may be working on the same model, just different sections. We want to do similar things here. When I cut the framing timbers, I delicately sanded them to very close tolerances, something like a thousandths of an inch with a plus or minus of five ten thousandths. Not really that hard to do. At this point, either floor I assembled would fit either car. When I assembled the car side framing, close tolerances here too. At some point I can work a little more loosely because I'm inside my own module. For instance, the floor only has to fit inside the door opening and somewhat inside the framing because the interior side panels sit on top of that.

The first photo shows the glueing stage for the floor... lotsa weight as ususal... I cut the floor in three pieces. the middle section sticks out the doors to the edge of the exterior siding. and the end panels sit just inside the side framing which sits on the floor frame. Think "the ham bone, is connected to the, knee bone".



This photo shows a couple of things, I purchased this really cool machinist's square from MicroMark (upper left in photo). It's designed to aid in cutting stock as thin as 1/16", and I use it a lot. But... I have all this 1/32" stock to cut, so I took an old X-Acto try-square and attached a piece of .030" thick styrene, the photo below it shows it in action. The interior siding is six boards high (3/4") and sits on top of the floor. The end inside panel fit between the side interior panels.





This photo shows the temp. assembly of this phase at somewhat eye-level. Not great depth of field, but it gives an idea of how much of the interior will be viewable from this level...



This last photo shows the temporary assembly. I try to hold off glueing major parts 'till I absolutely have to. I will probably paint a good portion before assembly.



That's it for now... I've decided to glue-up some 1/32" scribed stock side by side to get the length required for the roofs. Now, to tackle the floor and side panels for the outside frame boxcar. I's a little trickier than the box, plus the floor has all those notches to cut out...

Later...



Edited by - Richard Gardner on 09/16/2011 2:43:29 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 81 Go to Top of Page

Richard Gardner
Section Hand



Posted - 09/17/2011 :  6:06:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As I mentioned in my last post, I glued some 1/32" stock with 1/8" scribing side by side to come up with a piece about 5 1/2" wide. The photos below show how I accomplished this. I applied some glue along the edges of both pieces by putting a dollop on my finger and running it along the edges. I laid these down on a piece of glass not worrying about the glue on the glass. I wiped the squeeze-out off, ran a tooth pick down the groove to my satisfaction, slapped a piece of waxed paper on top and put my usual assortment of weights on top of all that. In this case I used a cutting guide with a knob that I got from Micro-Mark plus these round weights that just happen to fit over the knob.

Photo with glass, wood, waxed paper, and cutting guide...



This morning, I took the weights off. The waxed paper just lifted right off, and I popped the scribed wood off of the glass effortlessly. Photos show the top of scribed panel and the bottom. You might see the glue sheen on the bottom from where it was sitting on the glass. On the top side, the butt joint is hardly detectable. Use care and the panel will hold up for the next steps...





I sliced these to the width of half of a roof, combined them two-up for each roof (staggering the butt-joints) and cut them to length. I marked them to keep the centers located and used a sanding stick to sand a taper along the center joints so when they are mounted on the roof frame they will fit nicely.

This photo shows the first roof panel being glued to the boxcar roof frame. I aligned the center-line of the roof panel with the center-line of the frame and aligned the left and right by eye. Good enough.



This next photo shows the roof panels mounted on the frame...



And finally... we have a roof over our heads!



Next, I'll glue up some more wide stock for the outside frame box's floor and whip up some side and end frames.

TTFN



Country: USA | Posts: 81 Go to Top of Page

Martin Welberg
Fireman



Posted - 09/17/2011 :  6:19:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Martin Welberg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Cool report on the build, thanks for the pictures !!


Country: Netherlands | Posts: 6736 Go to Top of Page

Geezer
Engineer



Posted - 09/18/2011 :  06:41:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great progress Richard! Thanks for the "how to" and guidance.
I see that it really makes a difference to take your time and
think through from one process to the next. The car is looking
great, all square cuts and minimal glue.
I need to pay a visit to the local fitters shop and see if I can
get some 'bar stock' made up for me as well.
Thanks for the post.



Country: USA | Posts: 12973 Go to Top of Page

Tommatthews
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 09/18/2011 :  10:09:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wonderful build .. my wood is on order but probably wont arrive for 2 - 3 weeks as per usual.

What size(s) are the "bar stock"?


Tom M.

Country: | Posts: 9572 Go to Top of Page

Richard Gardner
Section Hand



Posted - 09/18/2011 :  1:03:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tommatthews

Wonderful build .. my wood is on order but probably wont arrive for 2 - 3 weeks as per usual.

What size(s) are the "bar stock"?



Tom... I've been collecting various pieces of metal for weights forever it seems. In the early 80's I lived in Buffalo, NY which was still recoiling from the loss of all their steel mills. A lot of industry went by the wayside, there used to be the Bell Aircraft plant there. So, it wan't unusual to find old machinist's tools, pieces and parts at flee markets and I collected what I could. Most of my treasures were lost in the floods after Katrina as they were at my office. I still have the collection that shows up in my photos from time to time. This is like a hobby within a hobby. When I look at another modelers workbench, I constantly look for what they use for weights.

But that's not what you asked is it. Most of what I use and I have about 8 of them are just under 2" long and very close to 5/8" sq. Handy little guys. I have two smaller pieces at 3/8" sq. by 1 1/4" long. I believe they are just key stock that can be had at Ace Hardware. The big box home improvement stores are always a disappointment when it comes to more esoteric hardware. Mary's True Value next to Poppy's Grill (remember, that's where Fred and his cronies have breakfast before coming over) on Royal Street is a treasure trove of these really hard to find items. There are a couple of odd sizes I still use from time to time, you can get their relative sizes from the grid on my cutting mat and their relation to the other measured weights.

The bottom line here is you want to constantly keep an eye out for items that can assist in your scratch-building endeavors. I'll post a photo of what I have on hand for your entertainment...

OK, this photo shows the weights or "bar stock" discussed plus one of the three 2 1/2 lb. dumbell weights I use from time to time. You might notice a piece of sheet stock stuck to one of the bars with one of those rare earth magnets. I got them to make uncoupling magnets and later ditched the idea. They come in handy.



Hope this helps...

Richard...



Country: USA | Posts: 81 Go to Top of Page
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