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 New 18'-0" boxcar Build
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Author Previous Topic: 1/48, 1/43, 1/50 - 25, 28, 32, 40 mm, figure ref. Topic Next Topic: Coast Line RR vol 7
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mabloodhound
Fireman



Posted - 11/30/2011 :  10:00:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I might even drop the periods. They just don't look right, especially the one after the 'V'.
I do like the letter style very much and it might go better on just one board. JMO



Country: USA | Posts: 6703 Go to Top of Page

Martin Welberg
Fireman



Posted - 12/01/2011 :  03:31:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit Martin Welberg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Can give it a try without the periods, but can place them anywhere if I do all lettering seperate. This is where they are placed typing it at once...like the font tho.


Country: Netherlands | Posts: 6736 Go to Top of Page

Jerry Kitts
New Hire



Posted - 12/01/2011 :  03:46:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gentlemen,

The periods are the most common way to do the letters. What is wrong is the lack of kerning or a in a sentence is called tracking. The periods need a touch more space between the letters and periods and its different for each letter. A good layout man can do it by eye. The programs that do kerning move the letter in very small increments until the eye is happy.

By the way that is not Railroad Roman, its Extend Roman or Passenger Roman you fooling around with. Just tying to keep you informed, not a being a smart A**.

Had a long day that is just now ending so I did not have a chance to scan the lettering information. I will try in few hours when I get up and hit it again.

I love this time of year when the ladies call in the Christmas list and have no idea what they are ordering. They do have an idea of how much they are going to spend and I have to cut some lists and at their suggestion add a couple of things that I think would go with the rest of list to make the amount come out even with what they are going to spend.


Jerry
Diamond Springs and Fiddletown Ry.

Country: USA | Posts: 37 Go to Top of Page

Martin Welberg
Fireman



Posted - 12/01/2011 :  08:13:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit Martin Welberg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jerry, I downloaded this font as RR roman, looks a bit weird maybe because I stretched it in illustrator..
Tom I'll work on it but have a game to watch this evening, hope to do some more tomorrow...try a one board too..



Country: Netherlands | Posts: 6736 Go to Top of Page

jschumaker
Fireman



Posted - 12/01/2011 :  09:25:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Martin,

Where did you download the font from?

Jeff



Country: USA | Posts: 1659 Go to Top of Page

Martin Welberg
Fireman



Posted - 12/01/2011 :  09:29:40 AM  Show Profile  Visit Martin Welberg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Just googled it and found a free site Jeff, drop me a mail and I'll send you the zip file


Country: Netherlands | Posts: 6736 Go to Top of Page

Tommatthews
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 12/01/2011 :  09:35:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Martin,

Appreciate the work. I would like to stay the height of two boards. There is no point in using lettering or numbering I cannot read.

This is a very simple railroad that needs only to identify our own cars by letter and which car by number.


Tom M.

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mabloodhound
Fireman



Posted - 12/01/2011 :  10:00:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, actually my thought was to use a wider single sign board, not the narrow ones. I do agree to keep the lettering large.
Single board signs were used on prototypes. But of course it is your RR and a double board is acceptable.



Country: USA | Posts: 6703 Go to Top of Page

Tommatthews
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 12/01/2011 :  10:07:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave,

I agree with a single board 12" high and lettering / numbering 9 - 10 inches high.


Tom M.

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Tommatthews
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 12/02/2011 :  5:23:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good day to start a regular 18 ft. box car build.




Tom M.

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Tommatthews
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 12/02/2011 :  5:58:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Richard,

Glad you are back to take the lead.


Tom M.

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Richard Gardner
Section Hand



Posted - 12/02/2011 :  7:43:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi y'all...

Had to take a sabbatical for a number of reasons, health being a main one. Tom sent me a PM today and I told him I was going to post today or tonight and would address new progress on my part, have some comments about what y'all been talking about while I've been gone and give some lame excuse for my absence. I thought I'd start off with the lame excuse... how am I doing so far?

Recent messages have been about lettering on Tom's car. A number of observations here. I can't believe I left off the period on the example I sent to Tom, it happens I guess. Jerry touched on the subject of kerning. Unless you've been involved in the business of typography you might have never seen the need for such an esoteric part of word construction. This is going to be a long night for me so I'll leave this subject and just say, try to keep an eye out for things like kerning. It's just another discipline that makes the study of model railroading great. Oh yeah, one more thing about lettering. I used to teach graphic design and one of the things we used to detest was digitally stretched or shrunk lettering. If you can't find a letter style to fit your needs, re-think your design. I know it's done all the time and we're going to see it done more now that we have computers that can destroy a typeface at the push of a button.

On the subject of sizes, types and where to put lettering on a car, don't forget the information on page 15 of this build. We talked about that subject a lot and Jerry provided a cut sheet from the 1923 American Railway Association showing the standard lettering guides of the day.

Good, this is going quickly so far...

Progress on the build...

The last I left you I had the side frames completed for the o. f. boxcar. I've since decided to approach them from a different angle. I mentioned before that approach can mean the difference in quality construction. I think I've also talked about perseverance. If you don't get it right the first time, do it again... and again if you feel the need. Even the second time I still needed to pop something off and either glue it somewhere else or replace it with another size. You'd think I could read my own drawings. Speaking of drawings, at this point, I believe they are pretty tight. For those who will start soon or have just started, pay close attention of the little corner drawings on one of the addenda. They will help you out a lot.

I see that Tom has just posted progress on his regular boxcar project. Would someone handcuff him 'till I finish this post? :-)

OK first picture...

Hmmm... seems that when I went to hit the insert a file button, I hit post reply instead. I removed it before anyone saw it except for Tom of course...

Who was in charge of handcuffing him!?



This shows the aborted attempt on the left with the new work on the right. The next picture shows a close-up of a side and end panel. This time around I started with the panel first. I then applied the vertical structural components using the template as a guide. This is all about the descending order of importance. The first order of accuracy was the floor frame and the roof. We used jigs to insure that they matched each other perfectly (or as best we can get). The end roof trusses are part of the end framing, so they determine the width that the end frame has to be. For the side frame, you've got to cut the top frame member to exactly the length of the floor and roof frames. After that, things get a little easier. The side panels only have to be close and align with the left and right of the top frame member. Also, the height of the car is not locked in so I cut the side panels so I had 12 clean boards rather than having part of a scribe joint showing. The vertical frame members only have to line up to the side panels. They are cut flush to the top of a panel and 1/32" below the bottom of a panel. I used a single edge razor blade so I could use the edge of a panel to square up a cut. I used a 1/32" x 1/16" stick as a spacer for cutting at the bottom of the panel.



This next picture shows the front and backs of the panels. Notice that the side panel does not have the outer verticals attached, they wind up on the end panels. This is because if they were on the side panels they would only be glued to the top beam, not very stable. If we put them on the end panels, they help lock the sides in alignment. The other thing of note is the scrap 1/16" sq. pieces attached on the backsides of the end panels. They help stabilize the corners. I'm banking on them not being seen when the car is assembled. The prototype does not have to resort to such foolishness because they use more accurately dimensioned lumber with fancier mortising.



This next photo shows the whole shebang banded together for a first look at the massing. I still have to massage the notches in the deck and framing to snuggle up. You might notice that I reversed the end diagonals to form an upside down "V" instead of the orientation I had on my drawings. It was pointed out that the way I had it was not all that common. So I thought, what the heck, I can correct this now. Oops, I now have to fill in the wide notch in the decking with strips of wood. That's OK.



That's it for now. I still have to fuss with what has been completed so far. Because everything is exposed on this car, it takes some finessing to tidy things up. Next stop is the doors and then I might feel I've caught up with Tom...

Once again, I want to thank everyone for carrying the torch in my absence. I'm honored to be surrounded by such a fine group of modelers...

Richard



Edited by - Richard Gardner on 12/02/2011 7:55:39 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 81 Go to Top of Page

Martin Welberg
Fireman



Posted - 12/02/2011 :  10:00:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit Martin Welberg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Great to see ya back Richard, hope you do ok healthwise..boxcars looks so fine that I wanna start on a build myself..as for letterin I don't have the access and inside info as european so I depent on guys like you and Jerry....thanx


Country: Netherlands | Posts: 6736 Go to Top of Page

n6nvr
Engine Wiper



Posted - 12/02/2011 :  11:51:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you're going to put your road name and logo on letterboards and a "logoboard". For this era, probably only a letterboard would be used but what the heck. I was with the boss, err, wife the other day at a large artist's supply store and was looking at the silk screening kits aka serigraph. And with a little effort laser printing on to acetate and then using that as a photo diazo master. You could come up with a nice sharp print. You could silk screen directly to letter boards, flat tender sides, etc. The folks said that it really needed to be a flat surface, that rivets or wood siding probably wouldn't work. In that case you could silk screen to decal paper and use that. You would want to build your own frame, it appears that all the ready made are too big.

Custom decals would probably be cheaper for the short run, but if you are making a lot of cars, then this might work. car and engine numbers still would probably need to be decals, silk screening individual numbers or letters would be a real pain.

Just an idea.


Don't push me bureaucrat, I've got a bit of hangover

Country: | Posts: 325 Go to Top of Page

Richard Gardner
Section Hand



Posted - 12/03/2011 :  01:26:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by n6nvr

If you're going to put your road name and logo on letterboards and a "logoboard". For this era, probably only a letterboard would be used but what the heck. I was with the boss, err, wife the other day at a large artist's supply store and was looking at the silk screening kits aka serigraph. And with a little effort laser printing on to acetate and then using that as a photo diazo master. You could come up with a nice sharp print. You could silk screen directly to letter boards, flat tender sides, etc. The folks said that it really needed to be a flat surface, that rivets or wood siding probably wouldn't work. In that case you could silk screen to decal paper and use that. You would want to build your own frame, it appears that all the ready made are too big.

Custom decals would probably be cheaper for the short run, but if you are making a lot of cars, then this might work. car and engine numbers still would probably need to be decals, silk screening individual numbers or letters would be a real pain.

Just an idea.



These are all good ideas and could be pursued by any of us. However, we started out to solve Tom's problem and he's made it clear he is looking for something simple. Learning the ins and outs of silkscreening is out of the question. Custom decals are relatively cheap. My first set cost 8 bucks for enough decals to do a half a dozen cars. I tossed a 10 spot in the envelope and called it a good day. The next time around it cost 17 bucks. Prices for Alps supplies had risen dramatically. I still called it a bargoon. But, and there's always a but, if you don't have the equipment and knowhow to produce your own artwork and have to have a professional do it for you, you might as well hand over your car keys...

So Tom, as I see it, the best move is to print the sign out on some stock as has been suggested, I think someone mentioned label material which you can pick up rather cheaply at the store where you get your ink. Print out a color or a scan that was offered, mount it on a board and use your stain to color the white edges of the label or paper. I think you would be very pleased with the results.

Hey, this is what I get paid the big bucks for...

Richard...



Country: USA | Posts: 81 Go to Top of Page
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