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Author Topic Next Topic: Nye, Inyo & Esmeralda Railroad
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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 11/30/2020 :  07:40:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[quote]Originally posted by Rail and Tie

Thank you so much for those weathering tutorials. Finally a great explanation of how to use MIG products with great success.

Well done!

THANKS. I feel that those military washes are not used enough by model railroaders, they are much easier to use than acrylics and I feel they give much better results, and they are so fast.



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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 11/30/2020 :  07:57:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I started to finalize the details on my next big locomotive project. A while back I purchased the Lima drawings for all the Manns Creek shays (#2, 5, and 8), my goal is to build all three. the main design feature is to use HO sized can motors, which I have from my days in HO scale, and to drive the locomotive from the cylinders and not the tender.

A while back i designed the cylinders but I needed some dimensions and photos of a real shay to work out some parts that I could not get drawings for. Fortunately there is a 37 ton narrow gauge shay close to me and over the summer I took a trip to go measure and photograph it. Manns creek #2 and 8 shays were 42 ton but the parts I needed to see were shared between the 37 and 42 ton shays.

I am 3d printing the test parts now and after test fitting and adjusting I will send some of these parts off for printing out of brass, other parts will be fabricated and photo etched.

here are some images of the 3D model. I have a few hundred hours into the design so far. the domes and the stack are just for proportions, I have the actual drawings I will design those after the drive is all finalized and tested.





here is the drive line section view. the main issue that I had to solve here is that the motor needed to slide into the boiler, but the gears needed to connect to the cylinder drive shaft, both of which I wanted to be easy to service. After I built the Heisler I got the idea to make a mount that I install the motor in and the upper worm gears, then this assembly is slid into the boiler and fastened in place. A short universal shaft connects the motor worm to the lower bevel gears that are installed in the rear cylinder casting. The cylinders are in half and incase the drive shaft, a short series of gears go through a channel into the firebox to a bevel gear. the entire cylinder assembly can be removed from the shay frame. The ash pan is a cover to allow access to the speakers, which will be mounted in the firebox, holes will be in the bottom of the ash pan for the sound to escape.


here you can see the three spur gears used to reach the drive shaft. I tried to use the least amount of gears as possible.



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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 11/30/2020 :  10:11:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
here are test prints for the main truck parts. missing are the brake beams, cross bracing, and the bevel gear covers. The goal here was to test the clearance of the large bevel gears to the back of the side frame and to test the gear mesh. These parts will be 3D printed in brass.

the truck on the right shows the geared side, the truck on the left shows the passive side. on the passive side I left out the spring, which I will use a real spring to simulate. I like the look of a real spring vs a cast in spring. The spring will only be for looks and not functional



Edited by - Coaltrain on 11/30/2020 10:13:20 AM

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jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 11/30/2020 :  2:57:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
That's quite a bit of engineering. Hope it works out without too many adjustments.

James

Edited by - jbvb on 12/01/2020 09:00:17 AM

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Chris333
Engine Wiper

Posted - 11/30/2020 :  5:21:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow!


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thayer
Engine Wiper

Posted - 12/01/2020 :  12:04:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit thayer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wow indeed. This is a monster project, and I wish you all success. In the meantime, I'll add my thanks for your weathering videos. I have been thinking about dressing up my Bachmann side dump cars, and will definitely be using your recipe as a guide for my efforts.



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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 12/02/2020 :  08:46:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You're welcome, I would do more videos but they take so much work and really slow projects down, hats off to those people that create videos.

I got more shay parts printed for test fitting. or the most part it went good but I broke the worm gear plate and have to print a new one.

I made a special firebox for testing, it is not the firebox I will be using, this one has no details and it has mounting tabs and legs so I can test the drive parts. On the actual model the firebox will basically just be a cover to hide all the drive parts and hold the speakers.

I mounted all the gears in the rear cylinder casting and that went well, it is nice and free rotating without much slack. I cut out the bottom of the gear cover so i could inspect the gears when I test run the drive. The crankshaft is just a rod for now because all I want to test is the gear reduction and check the gear meshes and I did not want the complication of a crankshaft and rods to deal with.

Right away I have to make a design change. I am using a Grandt Line bevel gear set to connect the worm to the spur gears but I found out that the bevel gear has to be flipped around to the other side from what i had designed. this will not be that big of deal, I will just move the spur gear chain to the next crankshaft journal location, but I will have to print new parts to test.







Edited by - Coaltrain on 12/02/2020 08:47:37 AM

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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 12/14/2020 :  07:05:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
a little more shay progress to report. as I type this I am printing what I hope is the last shay drive parts to test. the previous set was successful but I saw a few small areas to change. I printed a test frame so I can assemble the entire drive line and test it on the layout to see if it runs as expected. the frame was printed in PLA, the actual frame will be constructed out of brass and wood, however this frame is the actual size and will be a good test. I will add weight to the top to make up for the weight difference in the PLA.

I decided to make a very simple crank shaft case for testing and eliminated the cylinders and all the details. once the shay runs they way I want it I will redesign the cylinders and crank shaft case to look like the actual parts. I use a parametric CAD software to design these parts and the original parts had been so modified that the file got too "dirty" and I wanted to redo them with clean files. The benefits of parametric software is the ability to copy these parts and change a few parameters to generate the same parts of different sizes. The goal is to be able to build all three of the MC's shays from these same files by just "changing the numbers".

here is the new #8 sitting next to my old #8. The Manns Creek #8 was a 42 ton shay but it had a special frame and tender that was longer than standard and you can see that long tank in this photo of the two side by side.



here are a few photos of the test model. I changed my resin for the new parts to what is called "ABS" to see if it is more chip resistant, you can see some areas on these parts that I have chipped which is really annoying to brake a part and have to wait to reprint it. all the details are eliminate on these parts but the final firebox will have all the rivets and stay bolts printed in the final parts.

The trucks have been redesigned and I really like how they are turning out. for testing I assembled some original Kemtron trucks and boy are they are misshapen to say the least.






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TRAINS1941
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 12/14/2020 :  09:52:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So much talent unbelievable work!

Just love following your threads.


Jerry

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." A. Lincoln

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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 12/14/2020 :  10:44:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
thanks Jerry.

here is something that I thought would be interesting to add to this post.

I got my start in Model railroading in the early 80's. I actually had an interest in trains and had train sets in the 70's but it was not until 81-82 when "playing with train sets" became "model railroading". it was at that time my parents gave me a corner of the basement to build something more than just a sheet of plywood. John Allen was the king but the press was giving a lot of pages to Malcom Furlow and John Olson, all three of which modeled somewhat whimsical layouts in standard and narrow gauge, so my first layout followed suit.

My first layout was mostly HO standard gauge but there was short section of HOn3 that ran through it, pretty typical for the time. Being young and short on cash the narrow gauge never really amounted to more than a short section of dual gauge flex track I picked up. Then one day Model Railroader published an article on scratch building a D&RGW short caboose. it was one of those articles that MR did so well, every step was clear and there was an entire shopping list. I decided that the best way to start getting some narrow gauge equipment was to build this caboose, forget that I had never scratch built anything up to that point, and that with that lack of experience I should have never attempted to do a caboose (much less in narrow gauge). But I thought it looked easy enough and so I picked up all the parts at the local hobby shop (back then they actually stocked that kind of stuff...and existed), set up a card table in my bed room and had at it.

For the most part the project went pretty well...until I got to the roof. I struggled to get the roof to work out. I had big plans to make the roof come off to show a full interior like I had seen on models in the magazines, but doing so was a different story. I built that roof several times before I just gave up. It was also at that time I discovered a local modeler that had a layout that "operated" and learned about local prototypes, and the difference to whimsical layouts and prototypical based layouts. I decided to "grow-up" and switch gears to model a local standard gauge line and make a layout that "operated", which I did so up until 2010 when I switched back again narrow gauge.

In my early years of narrow gauge I sold all my HO standard gauge stuff and supplies off. not knowing much about narrow gauge I would buy pretty much everything I could find (I have since changed that). One day talking to a friend that owns one of the last hobby shops in the state I live in he mentioned that he had a bunch of old On3 stuff that he did not have on the shelf because nobody buys or models in that gauge around here. He gave me a price on the entire lot and I bought it. In that box of odds and ends was an old candy box, inside that box was a "kit" (box of strip wood and plans) for a D&RGW short caboose. I instantly though about how the HO version in styrene had done me in. Even though I have no use for a D&RGW short caboose I wanted to build it, sort of "finish what I started". I worked on the kit for a while and all went well...until I got to that D@#% roof again. This time I was working in wood, but this was the first time I built anything from wood, again I had tried it on a caboose, and again I wanted to roof removable. Defeated once again I put it away, and again once I refined my layout goals I had no need to go back to it.

As I continue to set up my work shop and unpack boxes I am finding stuff that I have not seen in a while. For two years I have not been able to locate all my styrene but while looking for some Christmas decorations I found my styrene. Another item I found was the On3 short caboose box (the unfinished caboose body has been on my shelf for a while).

I decided that this winter I was going to conquer it with the help of my 3D printer. I also remembered that I still had that HOn3 model and pulled it out, and I am going to do the same with it. Of course both models will just be shelf queens, but they both have a story that is part of my history, and both are really book ends of my hobby.

this is the current state of both models. the On3 version does look pretty good but there are issues in the roof that I have to correct. After which I will 3D print all the interior parts for it. The HOn3 version is not doing so well, you can see how warped the roof got from using too much styrene cement. the goal with the HO version is to just 3D print the entire roof and not do an interior.



Edited by - Coaltrain on 12/17/2020 11:11:35 AM

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thayer
Engine Wiper

Posted - 12/14/2020 :  4:02:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit thayer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Funny how we get certain things stuck in our blood! I expect we all have a few.

Thayer



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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 12/15/2020 :  08:16:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
after assembling the Kemton trucks, which had a few really bad castings I decided not to use them on the test model, instead I will try and use resin printed trucks. One reason is that I want to print my trucks in brass anyways so this will be a good test. second is that I want to see if 3D printed locomotive trucks would actually work and what the longevity might be.

I changed my truck design slightly by oversizing the holes so I can sleeve them with brass tubing for bearings. I also changed resin from standard to "ABS like" resin. A quick test showed me the ABS-ish resin to not be as brittle as the standard and it still keeps the detail, sort of a win win.

When I was at the Green Bay museum I photographed and measured up a real 37 / 42 ton shay truck and I wanted to correct some errors from the Kemtron truck. I also decided to make some parts connect for strength. One example where I made the parts connect is the brake hanger and the lower tie bar, on the prototype the tie bar had a gap where the brake shoes passed over it, on my model I made the two touch to make a more ridged single piece. I figured that this area was hard to see when the locomotive was on the track and it would be better to have the strength with just a tad loss of detail.

here is the prototype, you can see the brake I-beam just clearing the tie bar. I am not sure if the bar was bent from Lima like this shows, or if it got bent.



here is the 3D model that I made. I had to move the brake shoes farther away from the wheels than the prototype so there is no chance of them touching when all these parts are brass.



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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 12/17/2020 :  07:38:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
here is a completed truck reading for testing. I switched back to standard resin, I was getting too many fails with the ABS resin, and the thin parts seem too flexible. I am interested to see how durable this resin truck will be.

printing these trucks has me wondering if a hybrid brass and resin printed would build an expectable model. I may test print the cab/tender to see what the results would be. I really like building in brass but there could be lots of advantages to printing in resin.




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Tyson Rayles
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 12/17/2020 :  09:39:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Amazing!


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TRAINS1941
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 12/17/2020 :  09:46:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A great story thanks for posting.

Jerry

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." A. Lincoln

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