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Author Topic Next Topic: Nye, Inyo & Esmeralda Railroad
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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 01/03/2020 :  2:41:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
happy 2020 to all. I spent the holiday weeks mostly running test with the 3D printers. one test I did was a resin quality test between the Elegoo gray resin and the Anycubic green resin. I ran the same parts, with the same settings with the two different resins, to me I did not really see much of a difference. For the record I did run a heater in the booth, and the resin tray was very warm.







I also tried a test on the FDM printer. I was looking at some photos of the Manns Creek office building and I noticed that the windows I was using from Grandt line were not exactly correct. I created a new 3D model that matched the MC windows and I sided it to fit the Grandt Line frames I had already installed . I cut out all the windows on the structure leaving only the frames and trim. While I was printing all the new windows for the structure I had an idea. Using simplify 3D slicer program I created two print files of both the upper and the lower window sections. I set the printer to stop printing the window just a little over halfway through the print, which created a pocket in the window, at which point I set a piece of .007" thick slide glass, then printed the second half of the window print file which finished printing the rest of the window on the glass, encasing the glass inside the window. of course getting print off the print bed broke the glass right away. I came up with an idea to print on a piece of glossy photo paper that I taped down on the print bed, when the print finished I just untapped the piece of paper and pealed the paper from the window, worked perfect. it has been a little tricky painting the windows but so far it has almost been worth it. I say "almost" because I was having such an abnormally hard time cutting the glass, I think my scribe got damaged and was not making clean cuts. I did however get all the windows printed and I will post photos of the windows installed when I am finished painting them.



it is hard to see that there is glass in this window, I tried turning the window to get a reflection in the glass






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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 01/20/2020 :  09:19:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
a quick update on the structure progress....not much is happening with it, too many distractions at the moment. I am slowly working on the office structure, I am adding the new windows but I seem to break more than I finish, I only have one more to build and then I will install them and finish this thing up.

The shay project took a big step forward, I finally go my gearbox design worked out and after four revisions I believe I have the one I am going to use, I will do a final print and start my mock up locomotive for testing. I heard there is a 42 ton shay (in pieces) at Steamtown that I am going to see if I can get to this spring to photograph and measure for my final model.

the big news is my new layout plan. as much as I liked the last plan a few things bothered me with it. What bothered me the most about it was that I did not feel it was making the best use of the space and that it not check the boxes that I originally set out to check. I felt that I just gave up on trying to design a creative plan and just designed an easy plan. I know that I said I wanted something simple but that was a little too simple. I have always been a John Armstrong fan and as John says the first thing you have to do is make a list of your givens and druthers, which I sort of ignored with the previous plan.

If you go way back to the start of this thread you will see that one of my original goals was a lot of coal loading locations, which even in that small room I was able to get 5 locations to load coal. When it comes to modeling a coal railroad the more places you can load coal the more varied your operations can be. a few pages back from this spot you will see that even though my layout space is much bigger than the old house space I had only two places to load coal at!

Another key feature that I eliminated on the last plan was the switch back. the switch back is a space eater, and on my very first layout (at the beginning of this thread) the single switch back caused the trains to back in and out of the large mining area. when I revised that plan and converted it into a double deck Manns Creek plan I included a run around at the switch back so trains could always run locomotive forward, which is how the MC operated. If I could include a switch back (which is a key feature of the prototype) AND make sure to include the run around, then I get the bonus of adding what I call "non-switching" operation.

I decided with this plan to think a little farther outside the box. I decided to reconsider my desire to focus back on coal hauling and providing as many places to load coal as possible. I also really wanted to go back to the idea of creating isolated layout spaces. I wanted to have switching areas that seemed away from everyone else, not visible unless you enter them and having the rest of the layout and operators not visible while in them. My previous HO scale layout had a space like this and it proved to be one of my favorite places to be, an opinion shared by those that operated on it. When I meet David Stewart he also was designing a new layout that had the same idea of providing isolated areas.

I also decided not to give up on the mushroom design. I have always wanted to build a mushroom plan. earlier in this thread I did try and design a mushroom plan but it was not working out because there was too many deck height issues, I just did not provide enough deck clearances to be able to actually be able to build the layout. Also, I have a nice high ceiling and it just seems a shame not to take advantage of it. the nice thing about a high ceiling is that I can create walk under areas to access parts of the layout.

so here is a plan I came up with that pretty much ticks all the boxes. most of the layout is about 50-55" elevation from either the floor or a raised platform. there are two areas that will require lift bridges, one will have to be used by most trains, and one that can remain in place most (if not all) the time. there are two walk under areas, both are 75" off the floor and will be built on 3/4" plywood so no bracing will be under them. for me 75" is a walk under, from some it may be a nod under.

I really like that this plan still retains all the elements of the MC that I wanted, plus some of the elements I wanted from my first SCRY plan. this plan has 5 places to load coal at on three separate branch lines. each branch is completely isolated from each other and from the main layout, and none of the branch lines need to be passed through to reach the others. one area will include the reuse of the original coal mine area from my first SCRY, a section that I really liked and saved when I converted the previous layout to the MC.

the bonus of this layout is the inclusion of part of a sawmill. I did not want to model a sawmill, it is not an interest that I had, but I did want to model the drying yard of a sawmill. Modeling the drying yard portion creates a lot of switching and generates loaded lumber cars that would have to be moved down to a standard gauge interchange. by modeling the ends of tall stacks of cut lumber I can have several short spurs to pickup and set out lumber cars. loads will have to transverse the entire layout and be set out at the standard gauge interchange, which is now a modeled place. empty lumber cars will have to be moved from the standard gauge interchange all the way back to the drying yard. One of my favorite freight cars of all times is the plain old flat car, and I love seeing a string of them.

One other feature which the previous plan left out was a staging track. hidden staging is not all that necessary on a narrow gauge but I was using a hidden staging track on my previous version of the SCRY at my old house to simulate a new branch line that was being constructed. it gave me a reason to model a work train that would go out in the morning and come back at night. on this layout having a two track staging allows for the same work train a place to go, but I can also visibly stage an empty log train on the sawmill through track (by the drying stacks) and at the beginning of an operating session have it travel to staging, returning at the end of the session loaded and visibly staging at the mill, removing log loads after the session.

this plan may be a little complicated to look at, I am working on building a model of this one to make sure it will work out. aside from this color plan I have one that has all the elevations called out. I was pretty honest with this plan and the elevations because for this plan to work I have to be able to get up onto the top of one of the walls. to get up to the correct heights will require a 5% grade. the new shay drive I am designing is specifically being designed to not buck going down a 5% grade.





here are the plans that show the elevations





Edited by - Coaltrain on 01/20/2020 10:01:03 AM

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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 01/20/2020 :  09:34:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
here are a few images from the 3D model I am creating. this is the switch back area. the entire design of this layout depends on this switch back working out. the lower level is area 4 on the plan, the upper is area 9. you can see the platform for area 9 extends under the layout a little ways to allow toes not to slip off the platform, a plywood panel along the stairs keeps feet safely on the steps as well. high facias and light valances will create the shadow box look, a curtains along the bottom will block out legs. as on the previous layout I will also hide the view of upper deck bench work from view with plywood panels, the goal is to create a very clean look. I have a plan make the panels under the upper decks removable to service the upper deck.








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jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 01/20/2020 :  12:55:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Looking at your elevations, you could ease the switchback grade by moving the run-around to the lower track, then shifting the starting point of its grade closer to the tunnel mouth in Area 3. But if you're trying to reproduce a particular scene at the switchback, this might spoil it. The run-around could also go on the tail track, which would make the lift bridge hinge more complicated.


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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 01/20/2020 :  1:54:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for sharing the 3D printing resin trails. It looks like you're going to have a beautiful railroad. what size of a crew will you operate with?

Bob


It's only make-believe

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Chris333
Engine Wiper

Posted - 01/20/2020 :  5:38:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well that escalated quickly! Dibs on area 8.


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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 01/21/2020 :  07:07:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jbvb

Looking at your elevations, you could ease the switchback grade by moving the run-around to the lower track, then shifting the starting point of its grade closer to the tunnel mouth in Area 3. But if you're trying to reproduce a particular scene at the switchback, this might spoil it. The run-around could also go on the tail track, which would make the lift bridge hinge more complicated.



you're right, if I moved the run around to the other leg it would reduce the grade, and I have thought about that, but it does make the plan deviate from the prototype, looks and operation. the reason for the run around is to keep the locomotive on the head end of loaded trains. I assume this rule is because the prototype did not have air brakes and they used link and pin couplers, so there was real danger in a run away loaded car, keeping the locomotive on the head end would keep a loaded car under control. if I move the run around then I have to back a loaded coal train down the lower leg and cut off the power.

I am not afraid of going up a 5% grade, it is the bucking coming down the grade. I believe my new gear box design will eliminate this bucking.



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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 01/22/2020 :  06:42:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by railman28

what size of a crew will you operate with?

Bob



I am pretty much a solo operator, but the layout could be operated by 2, maybe even three, people from time to time. I don't hold regular operating sessions at my house, I just attend them at other peoples houses.



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Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 01/22/2020 :  08:38:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It looks like you have mastered the 3-D printer, Jeff.



Bruce

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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 01/30/2020 :  06:15:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
update on two of the three things I am working on.

the yard office building is taken high priority, I want this thing done so I can focus on the shay and other locomotives I am working on. I have been printing, painting, and weathering details. some of the items in the photos are still in all of the above stages. everything has dust on it from sanding the resin prints, so a good cleaning will be in order. I pretty much have all the items I need for the interior, except some stuff to hang on the walls. I need to come up with some lights to hang from the ceiling, I am still figuring that out.

the windows were a big issue. I originally used Grandt Line windows and doors but after I got them all glued in I figured out how to print the sashes directly on the microscope glass, which got me thinking if I a going to go through the trouble of printing lower sashes why don't I also print new upper sashes, because the Grandt line windows are not exact matches to the prototype. so I cut out all the sashes on the Grandt Line windows that I had already glued in, leaving only the frames, then I printed all new sashes, upper and lower, plus the attic windows. then I decided that I might as well change the doors because the prototype had five panel doors. then I noticed that the front doors had five panel screen doors, so I printed those. for screens I cut out the mesh from a reusable coffee filter that I had laying around.

now I am starting to work on the outside porch. I am building the railing and the steps. the railing and post in the photos are not glued in yet as I am still weathering them.

here is the growing collection of details.











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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 01/30/2020 :  07:47:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
part two of the update is about the layout. I am in the process of designing the bench work. it looks very complicated, but everything is designed in subassemblies. I will build all the subassemblies out in the shop this summer and then when the room is available I will haul them in for set up.

originally I was going to build the main platform (area 6,7, and 8) as one unit, but I decided that if I build them as two units I can actually walk under that area of the layout while standing up. my layout does not have that much complicated under layout wiring but how nice would that be to be able to stand up under it. also, I will use the space under the platforms for storage of long stuff and boxes, kind of like a very low crawl space.

here are some views of the design so far.




this is looking down the main aisle, the original SCRy dump trestle section is on the right, area 4 and 9 on the left.


this is a view looking at area 5 toward area 3. you can see how I will use a mountain to wrap around the end of the short backdrop section to hide the backdrop ending.


here is the view standing in area 3 and looking back toward area 2 (on left) and area 4 (on right). this shows the walk under created by area 5 connecting to area 9 (above and right)


here is one of the subassemblies of area 4 section 2. this is the end of area 4 where the switch back turnout will be located. you can see the drop section that will be used as the switch back tail track. a skirt will be used under the fascia in most places except where stairs are, the stairs will be plywood painted black. the plywood will be a safety feature to keep a foot from stepping off the side. platforms will extend under the layout to provide toe space if someone were to belly up to the fascia.


this is another subassembly; this is area 3 section 3. this is the transition from the lower deck to the upper deck. you can see the high fascia that will tie-in to the backdrop above. the curve on the upper deck will swing out close to the edge, there is no switching here, just running, so the operator will be looking up at their train. originally I was going to have this area a single deck with both tracks in the same scene, but there is a 21" elevation difference with only a 7" horizontal separation, which would cause the scenery here to be hard to pull off. creating a short section of double deck fixes the scenery problem because as the upper deck track curves back toward the wall there will be much more horizontal separation and by the time both tracks curve around the wall on the left side the upper track is coming down and the lower track is going up.


here is the subassembly of area 3 section 3


here is an example of the drawings that I will generate. these drawings are for me so neatness does not count, I just make them as fast as I can so they get the job done. each subassembly will have their own drawing, included a parts list. I don't go overboard on dimensions because each part has its length called out on the cut list, and if there is a dimension I find I need I will just open my laptop and get it from the file. if I were to be doing this as an actual job there would be a lot more detail shown on the drawings.




here is a close up of the isometric view of area 3 section 3. you can see that every piece has a balloon and number which correspond to the part cut list.




this is a lot of detail work, but this will make up for the time that I am losing because I have to wait for the room to become available. I also can tweak the design of the benchwork as I go without wasting time with real construction. many times after I get a subassembly done I see a way to simplify the construction, and it is easier and faster to modify in 3D than with real lumber. this summer I will buy a pile of wood, set up my saw, cut and number all pieces, then build. it should be a fun time. I can also test carry them into the basement to make sure they fit, then alter them if they don't



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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 01/30/2020 :  2:58:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The interior looks excellent. Hope fully the detailed planing of the bench work will save you time and money.

It's only make-believe

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Chris333
Engine Wiper

Posted - 01/31/2020 :  04:49:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I built a deck in the back of the house. Had the steps at an angle. I drew it all up in autoCAD to scale. I was able to list each board length I needed and also figure out the rise/run of the steps. Took a little while to draw it up, but probably saved me a few bucks in wasted lumber. And I knew it would work before I even started.


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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 02/05/2020 :  08:08:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've made good progress on my layout 3D model. all I have left to do is design the bench work for part of area 8. part of area 8 will be a section left over from my original SCRy layout so that area of the benchwork will have to be built to fit as I graft the original section to the new layout.

here are some images of the progress.








I also started to 3D print the layout subassemblies in 1/24th scale. the goal is to build a scale model of the layout so I can test the scenery and make sure it all works as planned. the 3D scale model will also help me know where I will have to have photo backdrop areas, which will tell me what sizes I will need to order. this layout is too big to do all areas with photo backdrops so I will have them in key areas. some areas of the backdrop will only need sky showing because they will mostly be blocked by tall scenery, an example is area 3 and 9 will have mountains above eye level so only sky will be needed, areas 1,2, and 7 for sure will be all photo backdrops.

here are the first two sections of 3D printed layout. the 1/8" Masonite did not print good, subsequent models I have thickened the Masonite just for the prints.






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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 02/06/2020 :  05:47:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
printed out a few more layout sections. I made risers on the first two sections but I left them off on area 3 because I am not sure exactly how high they will be, which is another reason form making this model. I am glad that my layout space is not available to build it yet, if it were I may not have wanted to take the time to plan this layout out...or I would have jumped at making one of my earlier plans.








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