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Wallace
Engine Wiper

Posted - 08/15/2005 :  01:34:15 AM  Show Profile
To Paul D: I apologize if I have left an erroneous impression. I have built HO gauge models of steam locomotives, operated by electric motors. I did know of a gentleman who built an HO live-steam locomotive, but that was over 45 years ago; I saw the model on display, but not operating. MR had an article once about a man who built a "cold-steam" locomotive; it ran on dry ice, contained in the tender. His name was Emil Vollenweider, and upon his passing, the locomotive was offered for sale in MR. There was no word about a buyer, however.
My reference to Live-Steam locos was meant to refer to the Live Steam Club in Griffith Park, Los Angeles, California.
There was another gentleman on this board who showed a picture of an HO brass loco he was building, but I have not seen any postings since. I realize that the availability of numerous models from the Far East may have discouraged scratch-building, but the satisfaction of placing something on the track that you have built from the ground up cannot be matched by a good paint job, decaling, and weathering on something you have bought.
This board is replete with evidence of the abilities of car and structure scratch-builders; where are the metal workers?



Country: USA | Posts: 372 Go to Top of Page

RodH
Engine Wiper



Posted - 08/15/2005 :  04:56:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit RodH's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Wallace

Is anyone on the Forum interested in exchanging ideas on scratch-building Steam locomotives?

I am embarking on two projects in HOn30.
1 - To kit bash a Climax B-Class from 18 to 25ton.
2 - To scratchbuild a loco that was kit bashed built from on Orrenstien & Koppel 50HP 0-4-0.

Ezard's Hybrid Loco


I'll keep you posted on both.



Rod Hutchinson
Growing Old Disgracefully
Australia

Country: Australia | Posts: 340 Go to Top of Page

RodH
Engine Wiper



Posted - 08/15/2005 :  04:56:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit RodH's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Wallace

Is anyone on the Forum interested in exchanging ideas on scratch-building Steam locomotives?

I am embarking on two projects in HOn30.
1 - To kit bash a Climax B-Class from 18 to 25ton.
2 - To scratchbuild a loco that was kit bashed built from on Orrenstien & Koppel 50HP 0-4-0.

Ezard's Hybrid Loco


I'll keep you posted on both.



Rod Hutchinson
Growing Old Disgracefully
Australia

Country: Australia | Posts: 340 Go to Top of Page

Wallace
Engine Wiper

Posted - 08/15/2005 :  2:57:15 PM  Show Profile
Mr. Hutchinson: I hope you can provide a lighhter picture of the mechanism of the crosshead and valve gear area of a most intriguing locomotive. It appears to be what American practice refers to as an "alligator" type. The method by which power is transfered to the axles is also indistinct, but is probably similar to the American "Climax" or "Heisler" locomotives. The superstructure has the virtue of (apparent) simplicity, and the stack is available from a manufacturer. The dome, if scratch-built, will require quite a bit of filing to match the boiler curve, unless you have a substantial milling machine and a cutter of appropriate diameter. I hope you can provide pictures of your model as it progresses.


Country: USA | Posts: 372 Go to Top of Page

Wallace
Engine Wiper

Posted - 08/15/2005 :  2:57:15 PM  Show Profile
Mr. Hutchinson: I hope you can provide a lighhter picture of the mechanism of the crosshead and valve gear area of a most intriguing locomotive. It appears to be what American practice refers to as an "alligator" type. The method by which power is transfered to the axles is also indistinct, but is probably similar to the American "Climax" or "Heisler" locomotives. The superstructure has the virtue of (apparent) simplicity, and the stack is available from a manufacturer. The dome, if scratch-built, will require quite a bit of filing to match the boiler curve, unless you have a substantial milling machine and a cutter of appropriate diameter. I hope you can provide pictures of your model as it progresses.


Country: USA | Posts: 372 Go to Top of Page

MikeC
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 08/15/2005 :  4:36:25 PM  Show Profile
For the newer members who might have missed examples of Wallace's scratchbuilt locos and rolling stock, click on these links:
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7057
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7068
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8896




Country: USA | Posts: 21584 Go to Top of Page

MikeC
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 08/15/2005 :  4:36:25 PM  Show Profile
For the newer members who might have missed examples of Wallace's scratchbuilt locos and rolling stock, click on these links:
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7057
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7068
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8896




Country: USA | Posts: 21584 Go to Top of Page

PaulD
Crew Chief



Posted - 08/16/2005 :  5:25:29 PM  Show Profile
Wallace,
Thanks to MikeC I now have a clearer picture of where your coming from. (Not live steam HO)
This talk on scratchbuilding has lit an old fire under me! I had done a lot of research in the late 90's to pull together enough info on scratchbuilding in Hon3. The problem then as now was Drivers. After viewing your fantastic scratchbuilds I really don't think I could teach you anything, I believe you could inspire all of us with your experience.
Yesterday I went through all my notes and reference material, most helpful of which is the NWSL power planning kit, it is a great start for gearing and power ratio's. Second is the 4mm Engine - a scratchbuilders guide Wild Swan publishers
www.scalefour.org/e4um/books.htm
This is a great reference and although British and 00 is relevant to all modelling.
Third is the collection of articles starting in October 1997 in MR titled Sratchbuilding a brass loco. Which I copied out and bound into a book to make it more accessible, this is the most up to date reference I've found using Bowser parts which are, I believe, readily available.
The last link is to a recreational metalworking web page that is co hosted by Cyrill Collins who also has an 00_HO_scratchbuilding mailing list which discusses Model building along your lines. I'll have to find the link but the metal working site is below.
http://www.metalwebnews.com/
PaulD



Country: Australia | Posts: 935 Go to Top of Page

PaulD
Crew Chief



Posted - 08/16/2005 :  5:25:29 PM  Show Profile
Wallace,
Thanks to MikeC I now have a clearer picture of where your coming from. (Not live steam HO)
This talk on scratchbuilding has lit an old fire under me! I had done a lot of research in the late 90's to pull together enough info on scratchbuilding in Hon3. The problem then as now was Drivers. After viewing your fantastic scratchbuilds I really don't think I could teach you anything, I believe you could inspire all of us with your experience.
Yesterday I went through all my notes and reference material, most helpful of which is the NWSL power planning kit, it is a great start for gearing and power ratio's. Second is the 4mm Engine - a scratchbuilders guide Wild Swan publishers
www.scalefour.org/e4um/books.htm
This is a great reference and although British and 00 is relevant to all modelling.
Third is the collection of articles starting in October 1997 in MR titled Sratchbuilding a brass loco. Which I copied out and bound into a book to make it more accessible, this is the most up to date reference I've found using Bowser parts which are, I believe, readily available.
The last link is to a recreational metalworking web page that is co hosted by Cyrill Collins who also has an 00_HO_scratchbuilding mailing list which discusses Model building along your lines. I'll have to find the link but the metal working site is below.
http://www.metalwebnews.com/
PaulD



Country: Australia | Posts: 935 Go to Top of Page

RodH
Engine Wiper



Posted - 08/16/2005 :  11:53:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit RodH's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Wallace

Mr. Hutchinson: I hope you can provide a lighhter picture of the mechanism of the crosshead and valve gear area of a most intriguing locomotive.

Mr. Hutchinson is a bit formal for me; Rod is fine.
The valve gear/crosshead is Allen Motion similar to http://www.southernsteamtrains.com/akpevt3br89.htm It's from an 50HP 0-4-0 Orrenstein & Koppel locomotive as is the cab and we think the front of the boiler. The bogies are Australian built by Day's Engineering here in Melbourne.
For my model Nigel Lawton http://www.geocities.com/nigellawton009/VeeTipper.html is making etched bogies with 5.2 mm diam. NWSL wheels and Tenshodo worm and gear for me. Bogie axles are 8.2mm apart. The lay shaft sticks out of the end of the bogies in towards the centre of the loco, (Like a Climax).

The motor is Falhauber 0816 with 4:1 gearbox and I will have to build a transfer box down to the lay shafts and connect with NWSL couplings.


Rod Hutchinson
Growing Old Disgracefully
Australia

Edited by - RodH on 08/16/2005 11:56:16 PM

Country: Australia | Posts: 340 Go to Top of Page

RodH
Engine Wiper



Posted - 08/16/2005 :  11:53:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit RodH's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Wallace

Mr. Hutchinson: I hope you can provide a lighhter picture of the mechanism of the crosshead and valve gear area of a most intriguing locomotive.

Mr. Hutchinson is a bit formal for me; Rod is fine.
The valve gear/crosshead is Allen Motion similar to http://www.southernsteamtrains.com/akpevt3br89.htm It's from an 50HP 0-4-0 Orrenstein & Koppel locomotive as is the cab and we think the front of the boiler. The bogies are Australian built by Day's Engineering here in Melbourne.
For my model Nigel Lawton http://www.geocities.com/nigellawton009/VeeTipper.html is making etched bogies with 5.2 mm diam. NWSL wheels and Tenshodo worm and gear for me. Bogie axles are 8.2mm apart. The lay shaft sticks out of the end of the bogies in towards the centre of the loco, (Like a Climax).

The motor is Falhauber 0816 with 4:1 gearbox and I will have to build a transfer box down to the lay shafts and connect with NWSL couplings.


Rod Hutchinson
Growing Old Disgracefully
Australia

Edited by - RodH on 08/16/2005 11:56:16 PM

Country: Australia | Posts: 340 Go to Top of Page

Wallace
Engine Wiper

Posted - 08/17/2005 :  02:40:48 AM  Show Profile
I am greatly heartened to see that scratch- building locomotives is not entirely a lost art.
I had the experience of making right-angle gears for a narrow-gauge RGS "Goose" for a friend. As originally built, the gearing had no speed reduction, and it ran about 100 scale miles-per-hour. Having a lathe with an indexing capability, I was able to turn blanks with faces of 55 degrees, of different diameters, then literally scraping the teeth by dragging the tool-bit progressively deeper to gouge out the teeth. I simply used the tool bit as a Shaper, to create the gear teeth.
With two double-reduction sets of gears, the top speed became quite a bit better, the the model stayed on the track when it came to a curve.
That model of an Australian locomotive may lack extensive detail, but building the mechanism looks like a great deal of fun, from the design to the execution. I hope we can see progressive pictures as your model takes shape.



Country: USA | Posts: 372 Go to Top of Page

Wallace
Engine Wiper

Posted - 08/17/2005 :  02:40:48 AM  Show Profile
I am greatly heartened to see that scratch- building locomotives is not entirely a lost art.
I had the experience of making right-angle gears for a narrow-gauge RGS "Goose" for a friend. As originally built, the gearing had no speed reduction, and it ran about 100 scale miles-per-hour. Having a lathe with an indexing capability, I was able to turn blanks with faces of 55 degrees, of different diameters, then literally scraping the teeth by dragging the tool-bit progressively deeper to gouge out the teeth. I simply used the tool bit as a Shaper, to create the gear teeth.
With two double-reduction sets of gears, the top speed became quite a bit better, the the model stayed on the track when it came to a curve.
That model of an Australian locomotive may lack extensive detail, but building the mechanism looks like a great deal of fun, from the design to the execution. I hope we can see progressive pictures as your model takes shape.



Country: USA | Posts: 372 Go to Top of Page

Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 10/17/2005 :  10:32:41 AM  Show Profile
I wanted to have a Western Maryland H10 2-8-0 (several really) for my railroad. I could not afford brass so I thought I would try to scratchbuild one. I really like using styrene so I decided to see if I could make one from styrene. I know weight is an issue but this locomotive is large enough that I am sure I can get a lot of weight in the boiler and in the frame rails. The boiler started with a piece of PVC pipe that I wrapped Styrene around. The frame is scratch built from brass and the drivers are from Bowser. The tender trucks are from PSM. I have designed the frame to use NWSL gear set for MDC locomotives because I have several MDC 2-8-0s that have these gears and I would like them to run the same speed.



BTW, I do not have any special or expensive tools. The frame rails were cut from brass with an xacto saw and I used a digital dial caliper I got from Harbor Freight tools for $20. I used CAD to layout the boiler wraps and printed them on paper, which I glued to sheet styrene then I cut out the shapes and sanded off the paper pattern. The dome was turned from styrene that I chucked in my drill. The only expensive tool I used was a NWSL riviter.



Edited by - Coaltrain on 10/17/2005 10:37:34 AM

Country: | Posts: 1284 Go to Top of Page

Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 10/17/2005 :  10:32:41 AM  Show Profile
I wanted to have a Western Maryland H10 2-8-0 (several really) for my railroad. I could not afford brass so I thought I would try to scratchbuild one. I really like using styrene so I decided to see if I could make one from styrene. I know weight is an issue but this locomotive is large enough that I am sure I can get a lot of weight in the boiler and in the frame rails. The boiler started with a piece of PVC pipe that I wrapped Styrene around. The frame is scratch built from brass and the drivers are from Bowser. The tender trucks are from PSM. I have designed the frame to use NWSL gear set for MDC locomotives because I have several MDC 2-8-0s that have these gears and I would like them to run the same speed.



BTW, I do not have any special or expensive tools. The frame rails were cut from brass with an xacto saw and I used a digital dial caliper I got from Harbor Freight tools for $20. I used CAD to layout the boiler wraps and printed them on paper, which I glued to sheet styrene then I cut out the shapes and sanded off the paper pattern. The dome was turned from styrene that I chucked in my drill. The only expensive tool I used was a NWSL riviter.



Edited by - Coaltrain on 10/17/2005 10:37:34 AM

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