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speedlimit20
Section Hand



Posted - 10/27/2004 :  8:10:58 PM  Show Profile
Progress has halted somewhat while waiting for Bernard's new all brass replacement cab floors to arrive. Looking forward to that very much.

I will need to unsolder the already completed whitemetal cab floor from the footboards and the screw's nut used to attach the brass frame to the cab floor subassembly. Oh well ... i guess it's good practice to work out the best way to unsolder things as well as learning to solder them together.

Sagging
I never really understood the issue with the 1st run kits where the cabs apparently sagged due to not being fully supported for the full cab floor length by the main brass frame underneath. I have never seen one of these kits but there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that they do have this sagging cab issue. I guess that it's down to all the heaviness of the whitemetal parts as the kit parts sure are going to result in a very heavy engine.

Now that the footboards have been joined to the cab floor and screwed down to the brass frame and this assembly has been sitting around for a while on the bench, i've noticed that the footboards, under their own volition, sag down at the front end until the boiler support /footboard spreader casting rests on the brass frame. Hmmm ... interesting. If i bend the footboards back up to be parallel with the brass frame, the whole thing will be sagged back down again at the front within a day. And that's without the weight of the sidetanks or the boiler and fittings being added as well.

Not a problem; the whole thing will be supported up ultimately... just an observation.



Edited by - speedlimit20 on 10/27/2004 8:14:42 PM

Country: Australia | Posts: 95 Go to Top of Page

speedlimit20
Section Hand



Posted - 11/05/2004 :  10:07:46 PM  Show Profile
Hey guys :

Haven't been able to do much on the NA the past number of days due to other priorities and workloads. And am awaiting some news about the wheel sets as i'm sure you are as well.

Help!
The other week, i started to clean up the slide bar/cylinder endcap castings (parts 26) and the matching crosshead/piston rod castings (parts 27). I've spent a lot of time on these rough castings trying to get them all straight and cleaned up for good operation, as i am sure that this will be a critical part of having the engines run smooth. I offered up the endcaps to the cylinders to check for fit and noticed that the piston rods will hit the front end of the cylinder caps thereby severely restricting the stroke distance of the crosshead/piston rods. Photo below tries to explain in graphic terms the issue being faced.



Now some photos i have of the crossheads on an NA seems to indicate that the crosshead stroke ran the full length of the slidebars, which is pretty much what i'd expected. There are no specific instructions in the kit that says to drill out the front end of the cylinders to allow the piston rod to run full length, and if there was, it would mean that the piston rod would stick out the front of the cylinders.


So, am i doing something wrong? Have i got something back to front? Am i missing something obvious here?

Help!



Edited by - speedlimit20 on 10/22/2006 10:08:00 PM

Country: Australia | Posts: 95 Go to Top of Page

speedlimit20
Section Hand



Posted - 11/05/2004 :  10:07:46 PM  Show Profile
Hey guys :

Haven't been able to do much on the NA the past number of days due to other priorities and workloads. And am awaiting some news about the wheel sets as i'm sure you are as well.

Help!
The other week, i started to clean up the slide bar/cylinder endcap castings (parts 26) and the matching crosshead/piston rod castings (parts 27). I've spent a lot of time on these rough castings trying to get them all straight and cleaned up for good operation, as i am sure that this will be a critical part of having the engines run smooth. I offered up the endcaps to the cylinders to check for fit and noticed that the piston rods will hit the front end of the cylinder caps thereby severely restricting the stroke distance of the crosshead/piston rods. Photo below tries to explain in graphic terms the issue being faced.



Now some photos i have of the crossheads on an NA seems to indicate that the crosshead stroke ran the full length of the slidebars, which is pretty much what i'd expected. There are no specific instructions in the kit that says to drill out the front end of the cylinders to allow the piston rod to run full length, and if there was, it would mean that the piston rod would stick out the front of the cylinders.


So, am i doing something wrong? Have i got something back to front? Am i missing something obvious here?

Help!



Edited by - speedlimit20 on 10/22/2006 10:08:00 PM

Country: Australia | Posts: 95 Go to Top of Page

dpw
New Hire

Posted - 11/06/2004 :  8:08:08 PM  Show Profile
Hi Rick,

I haven't got my kits and instuctions handy (in the process of moving) but from memory you are missing something obvious. The piston rod just needs to be cut to length keeping enough length to allow for the start of the stroke.

Damien Woodward
Melbourne
VRNG Yahoo Group Moderator

P.S. Rick this Forum is a great idea and I hope to start my own log after the move. I've got several series I kits I haven't progeesed with and this forum has inspired me to continue again.



Country: Australia | Posts: 1 Go to Top of Page

dpw
New Hire

Posted - 11/06/2004 :  8:08:08 PM  Show Profile
Hi Rick,

I haven't got my kits and instuctions handy (in the process of moving) but from memory you are missing something obvious. The piston rod just needs to be cut to length keeping enough length to allow for the start of the stroke.

Damien Woodward
Melbourne
VRNG Yahoo Group Moderator

P.S. Rick this Forum is a great idea and I hope to start my own log after the move. I've got several series I kits I haven't progeesed with and this forum has inspired me to continue again.



Country: Australia | Posts: 1 Go to Top of Page

johnhu
New Hire

Posted - 11/08/2004 :  01:50:16 AM  Show Profile
Hi Rick,

The crosshead and cylinders are the same as the first run kit I assembled. The short answer is that yes, you do have to trim the length of the piston. The piston does not come out the front of the cylinder.

The piston does not move the full length of the crosshead stroke. The maximum that the piston will move, depends on the amount of distance that a rotation of the ouside cranks will move the siderod.

ie: The distance beween the centre of the crankpin hole with the outside crank in the 3'oclock position, and the centre of the crankpin hole with the same crank in the 9'oclock position. (This is of course the maximum throw of the side rod).

Not a great explanation unfortunately, but I hope you get the idea.



Country: Australia | Posts: 23 Go to Top of Page

johnhu
New Hire

Posted - 11/08/2004 :  01:50:16 AM  Show Profile
Hi Rick,

The crosshead and cylinders are the same as the first run kit I assembled. The short answer is that yes, you do have to trim the length of the piston. The piston does not come out the front of the cylinder.

The piston does not move the full length of the crosshead stroke. The maximum that the piston will move, depends on the amount of distance that a rotation of the ouside cranks will move the siderod.

ie: The distance beween the centre of the crankpin hole with the outside crank in the 3'oclock position, and the centre of the crankpin hole with the same crank in the 9'oclock position. (This is of course the maximum throw of the side rod).

Not a great explanation unfortunately, but I hope you get the idea.



Country: Australia | Posts: 23 Go to Top of Page

speedlimit20
Section Hand



Posted - 11/08/2004 :  8:43:53 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by dpw

Hi Rick,

I haven't got my kits and instuctions handy (in the process of moving) but from memory you are missing something obvious. The piston rod just needs to be cut to length keeping enough length to allow for the start of the stroke.

Damien Woodward
Melbourne
VRNG Yahoo Group Moderator

P.S. Rick this Forum is a great idea and I hope to start my own log after the move. I've got several series I kits I haven't progeesed with and this forum has inspired me to continue again.



Hi Damien :

Thanks for the reply and information about the need to cut the piston rods to length. I searched the instructions several times but couldn't find any info describing what to do. Maybe there is an expectation that the modeller has enough past experience and / or knowledge to deal with these issues themselves without having to have every detail explained to them. I could see that the rods would probably need to be cut to a suitable length but needed to get advice here from The Knowledgeable here first before cutting them off. So, thanks again.

As for the construction logs on this forum, yes, i am glad that we pursued the idea. I'm having a great time doing it and we can be thankful that the nice folk running this site at RR-L are putting up with us playing in their backyard, so to speak. I've always been impressed with the way in which the guys at mylargescale.com share their building experiences in the larger scales through building logs and such, and when Darryl Hoffman up there in Alaska suggested that this site might be the place to do it, i jumped at the chance. So thanks to RR-L for allowing us here.

When you get settled into the new home, we'd be very pleased to see your own construction log get started here as well.



Country: Australia | Posts: 95 Go to Top of Page

speedlimit20
Section Hand



Posted - 11/08/2004 :  8:43:53 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by dpw

Hi Rick,

I haven't got my kits and instuctions handy (in the process of moving) but from memory you are missing something obvious. The piston rod just needs to be cut to length keeping enough length to allow for the start of the stroke.

Damien Woodward
Melbourne
VRNG Yahoo Group Moderator

P.S. Rick this Forum is a great idea and I hope to start my own log after the move. I've got several series I kits I haven't progeesed with and this forum has inspired me to continue again.



Hi Damien :

Thanks for the reply and information about the need to cut the piston rods to length. I searched the instructions several times but couldn't find any info describing what to do. Maybe there is an expectation that the modeller has enough past experience and / or knowledge to deal with these issues themselves without having to have every detail explained to them. I could see that the rods would probably need to be cut to a suitable length but needed to get advice here from The Knowledgeable here first before cutting them off. So, thanks again.

As for the construction logs on this forum, yes, i am glad that we pursued the idea. I'm having a great time doing it and we can be thankful that the nice folk running this site at RR-L are putting up with us playing in their backyard, so to speak. I've always been impressed with the way in which the guys at mylargescale.com share their building experiences in the larger scales through building logs and such, and when Darryl Hoffman up there in Alaska suggested that this site might be the place to do it, i jumped at the chance. So thanks to RR-L for allowing us here.

When you get settled into the new home, we'd be very pleased to see your own construction log get started here as well.



Country: Australia | Posts: 95 Go to Top of Page

speedlimit20
Section Hand



Posted - 11/08/2004 :  9:02:36 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by johnhu

Hi Rick,

The crosshead and cylinders are the same as the first run kit I assembled. The short answer is that yes, you do have to trim the length of the piston. The piston does not come out the front of the cylinder.

The piston does not move the full length of the crosshead stroke. The maximum that the piston will move, depends on the amount of distance that a rotation of the ouside cranks will move the siderod.

ie: The distance beween the centre of the crankpin hole with the outside crank in the 3'oclock position, and the centre of the crankpin hole with the same crank in the 9'oclock position. (This is of course the maximum throw of the side rod).

Not a great explanation unfortunately, but I hope you get the idea.




Hi John :

No, your explanation was perfectly stated, thanks hugely. I know what i need to do now thanks to both yours and Damien's posts.

It is obvious now ( ... like so many other obvious things in life seem to pass me by ... ) that the piston rods need to be cut to the proper length. As frustrating as it is going to be, i think i'll leave the cutting of these rods until i get the wheelsets back and can mount them into the frame, connect the rods together, and then determine the true length of the pistons. I could estimate the length, but it seems to me now that if the crossheads do not travel the full length of the guides, then the true location of the crossheads and their resulting stroke can only be determined once the wheelsets are mounted and the slide bars fixed into place in the cylinders.

Make sense?

I also need the wheelsets back from BGM before i can properly locate and mount the equalising setup that you descibed previously in your log so will go back to the superstructure and work on that in the meantime.

Thanks again for the assistance and advice ... greatly appreciated.



Edited by - speedlimit20 on 11/08/2004 9:11:43 PM

Country: Australia | Posts: 95 Go to Top of Page

speedlimit20
Section Hand



Posted - 11/08/2004 :  9:02:36 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by johnhu

Hi Rick,

The crosshead and cylinders are the same as the first run kit I assembled. The short answer is that yes, you do have to trim the length of the piston. The piston does not come out the front of the cylinder.

The piston does not move the full length of the crosshead stroke. The maximum that the piston will move, depends on the amount of distance that a rotation of the ouside cranks will move the siderod.

ie: The distance beween the centre of the crankpin hole with the outside crank in the 3'oclock position, and the centre of the crankpin hole with the same crank in the 9'oclock position. (This is of course the maximum throw of the side rod).

Not a great explanation unfortunately, but I hope you get the idea.




Hi John :

No, your explanation was perfectly stated, thanks hugely. I know what i need to do now thanks to both yours and Damien's posts.

It is obvious now ( ... like so many other obvious things in life seem to pass me by ... ) that the piston rods need to be cut to the proper length. As frustrating as it is going to be, i think i'll leave the cutting of these rods until i get the wheelsets back and can mount them into the frame, connect the rods together, and then determine the true length of the pistons. I could estimate the length, but it seems to me now that if the crossheads do not travel the full length of the guides, then the true location of the crossheads and their resulting stroke can only be determined once the wheelsets are mounted and the slide bars fixed into place in the cylinders.

Make sense?

I also need the wheelsets back from BGM before i can properly locate and mount the equalising setup that you descibed previously in your log so will go back to the superstructure and work on that in the meantime.

Thanks again for the assistance and advice ... greatly appreciated.



Edited by - speedlimit20 on 11/08/2004 9:11:43 PM

Country: Australia | Posts: 95 Go to Top of Page

speedlimit20
Section Hand



Posted - 12/30/2004 :  06:55:15 AM  Show Profile
Drwg5-Boiler+Domes+Stack

Well, still waiting for the wheelsets to come back and couldn't wait any longer to keep on with construction. Don't understand why it's taking so long.

I've moved onto attaching the stack and domes to the boiler which is step 5 of the plans. I've cleaned up the smokebox and soldered it to the boiler both inside and outside. The needle point of the soldering iron allows me to get right into the corner of the joints so it wasn't too bad soldering the outside joint between the boiler and the inserted smokebox. Besides, the smokebox casting was very loose in the boiler and i reckoned that it wouldn't hurt to solder them together on the outside as well. No cleanup was necessary and i am happy with the way the whitemetal soldering is going now. Confidence is building ... gradually.



Flushed with success of getting the smokebox permanently attached straight and true, i decided to tackle soldering the stack onto the smokebox and fitting the copper stack cap in place. I spent quite a bit of time cleaning up the copper top and polishing it to a reasonable degree as per the prototype NA's. I'll finish this later when the engine is completed and painted. The cap is not attached so that the whole thing can be airbrushed with the cap off.

So having done the boiler and smokebox joint and followed that up with attaching the smokestack into place, i couldn't help temporarily staging a few of the major components in position for the camera and to show that some progress is actually happening.



Next will be the domes. I've had a good look at these, cleaned them up and have decided to screw them to the boiler rather than permanently soldering them on. Besides, on the steam dome and one of the two sand domes, the cast on screw whitemetal thread was snapped off and i had real doubts about using the "threaded rod" to secure these domes to the boliler anyway. So the domes are all going to be cleaned up of the remaining screwthread bits and then a 2-56 hole will be drilled and tapped into the base of each dome to accept a screw. I'll cut a small brass sheet plate for each one that will go inside the roof of the bolier and act as a washer through which i'll insert a 2-56 screw up into the tapped hole in the domes. So they will be screwed upwards into the domes rather than trying to run a nut onto the threaded stems protruding from the underside of each dome.

Anyway, things are progressing even without the wheels. Seeing the engine's partial superstructure even temporarily assembled is giving me enough drive to continue construction. It's a lot of fun, that's for sure.



Edited by - speedlimit20 on 10/22/2006 10:10:52 PM

Country: Australia | Posts: 95 Go to Top of Page

speedlimit20
Section Hand



Posted - 12/30/2004 :  06:55:15 AM  Show Profile
Drwg5-Boiler+Domes+Stack

Well, still waiting for the wheelsets to come back and couldn't wait any longer to keep on with construction. Don't understand why it's taking so long.

I've moved onto attaching the stack and domes to the boiler which is step 5 of the plans. I've cleaned up the smokebox and soldered it to the boiler both inside and outside. The needle point of the soldering iron allows me to get right into the corner of the joints so it wasn't too bad soldering the outside joint between the boiler and the inserted smokebox. Besides, the smokebox casting was very loose in the boiler and i reckoned that it wouldn't hurt to solder them together on the outside as well. No cleanup was necessary and i am happy with the way the whitemetal soldering is going now. Confidence is building ... gradually.



Flushed with success of getting the smokebox permanently attached straight and true, i decided to tackle soldering the stack onto the smokebox and fitting the copper stack cap in place. I spent quite a bit of time cleaning up the copper top and polishing it to a reasonable degree as per the prototype NA's. I'll finish this later when the engine is completed and painted. The cap is not attached so that the whole thing can be airbrushed with the cap off.

So having done the boiler and smokebox joint and followed that up with attaching the smokestack into place, i couldn't help temporarily staging a few of the major components in position for the camera and to show that some progress is actually happening.



Next will be the domes. I've had a good look at these, cleaned them up and have decided to screw them to the boiler rather than permanently soldering them on. Besides, on the steam dome and one of the two sand domes, the cast on screw whitemetal thread was snapped off and i had real doubts about using the "threaded rod" to secure these domes to the boliler anyway. So the domes are all going to be cleaned up of the remaining screwthread bits and then a 2-56 hole will be drilled and tapped into the base of each dome to accept a screw. I'll cut a small brass sheet plate for each one that will go inside the roof of the bolier and act as a washer through which i'll insert a 2-56 screw up into the tapped hole in the domes. So they will be screwed upwards into the domes rather than trying to run a nut onto the threaded stems protruding from the underside of each dome.

Anyway, things are progressing even without the wheels. Seeing the engine's partial superstructure even temporarily assembled is giving me enough drive to continue construction. It's a lot of fun, that's for sure.



Edited by - speedlimit20 on 10/22/2006 10:10:52 PM

Country: Australia | Posts: 95 Go to Top of Page

johnhu
New Hire

Posted - 01/06/2005 :  01:35:48 AM  Show Profile
Well Rick, looks like your model is coming along very nicely. You're certainly getting brave
if you plan on rebuilding the sidetanks. I'm definitely not that game. I do agree that the rivet
detail is not that great. My first run was a lot sharper in that respect, so you may be right
about the molds getting worn.

For the domes, I cut off pretty much all of the threaded rod, leaving just enough to popdown into
the hole in the boiler. I plan to glue them to the boiler with epoxy. This will give me time to
make sure everything lines up straight, without having anything protrude down inside the boiler.
I found when I build my first-run kit, that you need all the space you can get inside the boiler.

Progress on my own has slowed a little due to work committments, but I have at least got my wheels
back from BGM, and they now all run strait and true. I've done a little more work on the mechanism
(installed the side-rods). Guess I'll have to fire up the camera and post a few pics.

On an unrelated note. I'll be coming over for the NG convention in Albury, so hope to catch up with
you all then.

John



Country: Australia | Posts: 23 Go to Top of Page

johnhu
New Hire

Posted - 01/06/2005 :  01:35:48 AM  Show Profile
Well Rick, looks like your model is coming along very nicely. You're certainly getting brave
if you plan on rebuilding the sidetanks. I'm definitely not that game. I do agree that the rivet
detail is not that great. My first run was a lot sharper in that respect, so you may be right
about the molds getting worn.

For the domes, I cut off pretty much all of the threaded rod, leaving just enough to popdown into
the hole in the boiler. I plan to glue them to the boiler with epoxy. This will give me time to
make sure everything lines up straight, without having anything protrude down inside the boiler.
I found when I build my first-run kit, that you need all the space you can get inside the boiler.

Progress on my own has slowed a little due to work committments, but I have at least got my wheels
back from BGM, and they now all run strait and true. I've done a little more work on the mechanism
(installed the side-rods). Guess I'll have to fire up the camera and post a few pics.

On an unrelated note. I'll be coming over for the NG convention in Albury, so hope to catch up with
you all then.

John



Country: Australia | Posts: 23 Go to Top of Page
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