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Author Previous Topic: Getting started on layout design Topic Next Topic: ATTN: Layout design/track planning gurus!
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mosslake
Fireman

Posted - 04/27/2002 :  8:23:58 PM  Show Profile
On a different note, how many people stop the train at a switch to allow the brakeman (Brakie) time to throw it ??
And after coupling up what about time to pump up the air ??

Russ
Moss Lake Lumber Co.



Country: Australia | Posts: 1005 Go to Top of Page

brakie
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 04/27/2002 :  9:39:30 PM  Show Profile
AHHHH!But there is a little more to that. The local has stopped at a industry the head brakeman will step in between the cars to shut of the air with the angle cocks on the air line,step out ,pull the uncoupling bar,then give the engineer the signal to pull ahead.Then,at the switch,he will unlock the switch,then throw it.In the mean time the rear brakeman has gotten the derail and unlocked and open.The Conductor has by this time has unlocked and open the gate (if any) to the industry.Then the industry is switched.Then,the gate is closed back and locked,the derail is closed and locked,as well as the switch.Then you back into your train,after the coupling,the brakeman will again step in between the cars and re connect the air hose.Now,don't forget to give the brakeman time to walk back to the engine.Then you are ready to go to the next idustry.All this takes time to do.One more thing the conductor will need to take the waybills into the reciving office or leave them in a mailbox used for that reason.He will also get instructions on where to spot the car(s).(this will apply mostly to the bigger industries).

brakie



Country: USA | Posts: 6979 Go to Top of Page

MikeC
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 04/29/2002 :  1:56:15 PM  Show Profile
This is good stuff, Brakie I had read somewhere (maybe an MR article) what Russ was suggesting, but I had no idea that what all you're describing goes on.

So in a true (model RR) operating scheme should all of those actions be taken into account, or would they make an operating session too long or too "stressful" for a crew?

Mike Chambers
Central Missouri & Southern RR
http://homepage.mac.com/michael21/CMS-RR-Co./



Country: USA | Posts: 21584 Go to Top of Page

papasmurf37
Engine Wiper

Posted - 04/29/2002 :  3:03:40 PM  Show Profile
MIKE/BRAKIE:
If a club or home modeler wanted to include this time element into switching operations, one could use the egg timer suggested by Russ or maybe a clock like the ones used in chess matches could be obtained to time each move when spotting/picking up cars. Or an appointed dispatcher for an evening's op. session could act as timer.
Just some thoughts....papa smurf

Tom in NH



Country: USA | Posts: 319 Go to Top of Page

mosslake
Fireman

Posted - 04/29/2002 :  4:19:25 PM  Show Profile
Thanks Brakie !! This is the sort of thing I was leading up to.
We're involved in operating our railroads for enjoyment so slowing things down a bit should work in our favour.
What it amounts to is a pause for a time between moves. All of this should be taken into account when switching. It makes a simple run round move not as simple dosen't it ?? As for the amount of time to be allowed, then that'll have to be worked out when the time comes. Different jobs require different amounts of time, even the same type of job can take longer, a stiff switchlock, points won't close up or are full of snow (something for Phil),all sorts of things.
When I have tried to duplicate this sort of thing, I've tried to visualise a person actually walking from the engine to the switchstand and going through the actions involved in what I'm doing.
That can at times be all thats needed.

Russ
Moss Lake Lumber Co.



Country: Australia | Posts: 1005 Go to Top of Page

brakie
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 04/29/2002 :  4:53:02 PM  Show Profile
Mike and Guys,That did not include picking up a load or empty.If the crew was going to pick up a load/empty,here is what would happen.Before coupling up to the car,the brakeman would insure that there was no workers in or around the car(s).If all is clear,he would proceed to couple up.He would then release the hand brake(which,btw,I forgot to do when I made the frist reply ),he would then check for chocks under the wheels and any other item,then proceed with the move.Then when the car(s) is coupled to the train,the air hose would be connected and the angel cocks opened.The crew will then complete the set out.To answer you question,to my mind no,it would just add to the fun.

brakie

Edited by - brakie on 04/29/2002 16:55:12



Country: USA | Posts: 6979 Go to Top of Page

brakie
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 04/29/2002 :  5:12:58 PM  Show Profile
Russ,As far as walking most brakeman would ride the car to the switch.This is done to save time.Also at most industries we would ride the car till we almost reach the dock area,then swing off.

Another thing to remember is to keep the speed around 5-7 mph.This is done for safety reasons and industry track is not always the best.


brakie



Country: USA | Posts: 6979 Go to Top of Page

MikeC
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 04/30/2002 :  09:31:04 AM  Show Profile
I asked about the length of the operating session and crew "stress" because Tony Koester is always commenting on that in his MR columns. He frequently alludes to "3 and 4-hour" operating sessions, against a fast clock, and mentions how important it is to have a "crew lounge" where off-duty crews can relax and let go of the tension. I assume he's serious when he describes that sort of operating session, and it just does not sound like fun to me.

But then, I've never actually had an opportunity to operate, so I'm certainly no expert.

Mike Chambers
Central Missouri & Southern RR
http://homepage.mac.com/michael21/CMS-RR-Co./



Country: USA | Posts: 21584 Go to Top of Page

mosslake
Fireman

Posted - 04/30/2002 :  11:12:56 AM  Show Profile
Hey Mike,
When you look at the old AM of Tony Koester it would be the upper end of the scale of things. It was a pretty intense operation on a large scale. Thats how it was designed and how it was operated, and those involved seemed to like it that way. Phils NYC layout may be approaching it in size and he may have a similar type of operation as his goal. But I know I wont be as I prefer the small industrial/shortline style of operation. When it stops being fun is when its time to back up a bit.

Russ
Moss Lake Lumber Co.



Country: Australia | Posts: 1005 Go to Top of Page

brakie
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 04/30/2002 :  4:48:53 PM  Show Profile
Mike,At the club I belong to we operate the layout by car cards and waybills.Our operations on Friday night can last untill 1:00-2:00 am.On Sundays it can last till 6:00-7:00pm.We meet Fridays at 6:00pm and Sundays at 12:00pm.I suspect that T.K. may not have ran that many trains,if he can't keep the crews busy.All we have at the club is the meeting room and a pot of coffee.Now,at the other club I hardly go to any more,they go by the bells,in at 7:00 out by 9:00!Then they ask why they can't keep members! I think most modelers(at lease some that I have met)wants to put a time limit on the hobby.I know one guy who quit the hobby due to the lack of time.Still he watches T.V. 3-5 hours aday.On your operations I would give it a try and go from there as you can always cut back if the time runs to long or if the operators get to tired.You may want to get some input from them also.

brakie



Country: USA | Posts: 6979 Go to Top of Page

MikeC
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 04/30/2002 :  5:13:45 PM  Show Profile
As always, Russ and Brakie, good advice. I appreciate your thoughts. All of these things I'm learning from you guys (and Tom, too) are helping me identify some key elements in planning the rest of my layout and sort out what I want to do operationally.

Mike Chambers
Central Missouri & Southern RR
http://homepage.mac.com/michael21/CMS-RR-Co./



Country: USA | Posts: 21584 Go to Top of Page

mosslake
Fireman

Posted - 04/30/2002 :  7:15:38 PM  Show Profile
The operation SIG forum's purpose is all about learning. I've been involved in operations on both models and the real thing and I'm not afraid to admit that since Tom started these topics I've learnt a lot. I've been able to contribute a lot too. Stuff I've learned over the years and experiences that would otherwise be forgotten. If it helps and benefits someone then mission accomplished !!
And the funs far from finished yet !!

Russ
Moss Lake Lumber Co.



Country: Australia | Posts: 1005 Go to Top of Page

jc5729
New Hire

Posted - 08/04/2005 :  3:53:58 PM  Show Profile  Send jc5729 a Yahoo! Message
Hello, all from a newbie. One thing I have found to be a help is a pocket to park the yard switcher in front of the yard office. Double ended yards can use one at each end. Otherwise have them sit on the ladder or thorofare so the A/D traack is always clear, eh?

jc5729

Country: USA | Posts: 7 Go to Top of Page

jc5729
New Hire

Posted - 08/04/2005 :  3:53:58 PM  Show Profile  Send jc5729 a Yahoo! Message
Hello, all from a newbie. One thing I have found to be a help is a pocket to park the yard switcher in front of the yard office. Double ended yards can use one at each end. Otherwise have them sit on the ladder or thorofare so the A/D traack is always clear, eh?

jc5729

Country: USA | Posts: 7 Go to Top of Page

leeflan
Fireman

Posted - 08/04/2005 :  6:02:32 PM  Show Profile
Gee, Gang, this started out as a really interesting topic; I'm surprised it took so long between posts. Maybe to get things started again, I'll take a few minutes to review the operating system for the HO scale Louisville & Wadley Southern RR.

BACKGROUND: The L&WS is a 10-mile Southern short line set in Southcentral Georgia in 1957, and based closely but not exactly on the actual 10-mile Louisville & Wadley Railroad that ran from Wadley, on the Central of Georgia mainline, north to Louisville. (The L&WS also interchanges with the Georgia Southern RR at Wadley.) The L&W served several industries, including a pulpwood yard, lime dealer, several gas & oil warehouses (Gulf, Standard, Sinclair), lumber yard, furniture factory, and the lines largest customer, the Louisville Fertilizer & Gin Co., which shipped cotton byproducts. I've modeled some of these industries and freelanced others. For most of its existence, the L&W ran one mixed train per day, and so do I, except that during cotton season (which is whenever I feel like it), I run two trains a day, a mixed and a freight to handle the increased LF&G traffic. Here's an early version of the L&WS trackplan; I've since modified the Wadley track arrangement.


As you can see, the train room and layout are more than somewhat spatially challenged. That's why I went from modeling a mainlnine RR to a short line.

OPERATION: The real L&W rarely ran trains with more than six freight cars and a combine, in fact, in all of the photos of the L&W I've collected over the years, I've only seen one photo with seven cars. So I run six car maximum trains.

The operating manual used on the L&W was the Central of Georgia Railway, so I use a CofG book of Operating Rules from the mid-fifties. The L&W also used employee timetables, so I've created an L&WS employee timetable following actual L&W schedules and Special Instructions, the cover of which is shown below.


I also use these timetables as souvenirs for visitors. I also use the standard car card forwarding system, except that I only use a two-cycle system.

OK, so with all this background, how do I get trains moving? Well, here's the scenario:

1. I first need to see how many cars are going to be dropped off on the CofG/GS interchange tracks. (Actually, a manually interactive visible staging yard. OK, fiddle yard.) So I roll a die; one = 1 car, 5 = 5, 6 = 0. This way, I can sometimes run a straight passenger train, albeit not very long.

2. Then, I pull the appropriate number of waybills from the box to see who needs what and what type of car. (I run a nice variety of boxcars, flat cars, covered hoppers, tank cars, hoppers, gondolas, pulpwood racks, and, eventually when I can afford them, ventilated boxcars.)

3. Next, the waybills are placed in the appropriate car cards and the corresponding freight cars are blocked into either the CofG or GS midnight local to be cut out on the interchange tracks. OK, so I grab the cars off the bookshelf and place them on the layout with the 0-5-0.

4. Once the operating "day" begins, the engineer assembles the train, hooks up to the combine, and away she goes. Right?

Wrong! On a small layout like mine, things would be over and done with really quickly if they went like that. As Brakie and the others have noted earlier, I use time to make the day seem longer.

Enter "Fred." Fred is an S-scale figure I use as my brakeman. I drilled a hole in his foot and glued in a pin so I could move him around on the foam sub roadbed. So as Russ asked about, the train stops at every switch to allow Fred plenty of time to unlock and throw it. All turnouts are hand thrown, so I don't throw the switch until Fred has had plenty of time.

When cars are to be uncoupled, I place Fred between the cars and, again, wait a sufficient period of time for Fred to cut off the air, etc., before I unclouple the cars with my small screwdriver. I will also allow walking time where applicable.

This type of operating scheme has really added to my enjoyment of operating my small layout by making the operation more realistic and makingh the operating session much longer. Depending on how many cars are to be set out and picked up, operating sessiions have lasted from an hour and fifteen minutes to nearly two hours. And I owe it all to Fred.

Now I realize this scheme isn't for everyone, but it sure works great on my little short line.




Country: USA | Posts: 2447 Go to Top of Page
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