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Thorn Creek and Western
Fireman



Posted - 10/21/2005 :  01:03:27 AM  Show Profile  Visit Thorn Creek and Western's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Archbar Jesse

I like old kits.


So do I. (As you can tell from my above posts.) But you know what?-- we're wrong! If you don't believe me, re-read Bill Schaumburg's rant starting on page 8 of the September, 2005 Railroad Model Craftsman. Apparently all those old kits we love/loved were actually crap.

While I don't disagree with everything Schaumburg has to say, some of it is flat wrong. For instance, at one point he says. "...laser cutting has replaced die cutting because it is better."

Oh sure. Laser cut elements with the grain going sideways is WAY better than Northeastern milled wood any day.

Frankly, I think Unca' Bill has spent WAY too much time in Newton and has drunk WAY too much coffee.
-Dave


-Dave

Country: USA | Posts: 2456 Go to Top of Page

Thorn Creek and Western
Fireman



Posted - 10/21/2005 :  01:03:27 AM  Show Profile  Visit Thorn Creek and Western's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Archbar Jesse

I like old kits.


So do I. (As you can tell from my above posts.) But you know what?-- we're wrong! If you don't believe me, re-read Bill Schaumburg's rant starting on page 8 of the September, 2005 Railroad Model Craftsman. Apparently all those old kits we love/loved were actually crap.

While I don't disagree with everything Schaumburg has to say, some of it is flat wrong. For instance, at one point he says. "...laser cutting has replaced die cutting because it is better."

Oh sure. Laser cut elements with the grain going sideways is WAY better than Northeastern milled wood any day.

Frankly, I think Unca' Bill has spent WAY too much time in Newton and has drunk WAY too much coffee.
-Dave


-Dave

Country: USA | Posts: 2456 Go to Top of Page

jerryglow
Engine Wiper



Posted - 10/21/2005 :  06:41:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit jerryglow's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by hudsonelectric

Ahhhh...a (cave)man after my own heart! I built a Rio Grande models AH&D HOn3 ditcher some years back...really sweet! I also built some Gloor Craft/Quality Craft models base on EBT prototypes and an Erie wood caboose. Really nice! What's your take on Silver Streak, either the 'old' or the 'new'?



Most Silver Streak kits are dimmensionally inaccurate plus IMHO the factory lettering dosen't compare favorably to what's available in today's decals (assuming what you want IS available). The few Gloor Craft kits I built were good for the time, but I'd take more current offerings if available.



Country: | Posts: 309 Go to Top of Page

jerryglow
Engine Wiper



Posted - 10/21/2005 :  06:41:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit jerryglow's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by hudsonelectric

Ahhhh...a (cave)man after my own heart! I built a Rio Grande models AH&D HOn3 ditcher some years back...really sweet! I also built some Gloor Craft/Quality Craft models base on EBT prototypes and an Erie wood caboose. Really nice! What's your take on Silver Streak, either the 'old' or the 'new'?



Most Silver Streak kits are dimmensionally inaccurate plus IMHO the factory lettering dosen't compare favorably to what's available in today's decals (assuming what you want IS available). The few Gloor Craft kits I built were good for the time, but I'd take more current offerings if available.



Country: | Posts: 309 Go to Top of Page

k9wrangler
Engineer



Posted - 10/21/2005 :  09:16:55 AM  Show Profile
I've never ventured too far into old kits after ordering and anxiosly awaiting the Quality Craft models Liquid Oxygen tank car kit which was modeled after an Air Reduction Co. car that actually was in and out of the now defunct AirCo plant in my home town. I once actually saw the same numbered car as in the ad for the kit. While the car shown was in AirCo paint and correct numbers on the kit box and instructions the Logo and lettering were airbrushed out and the decals in the kit were for another company. When I opened the box, 1/2 dozen metal castings for the tank ends and undercar bolsters I took a deep breath and after reading the part about taking 1/16" wooden strip wood and steaming it to bend the ribs for the tank it went back into the box and never was even started.

I recently bought 4 Ambroid kits at an area antique mall, Plugdoor box car, Covered hopper, NKP Caboose and the Work caboose baggage combine car. I found them to be comeplete even with the plastic bag of parts still sealed with staples and the wadded up newsprint type paper there as well. I MAY sometime attempt the work caboose as it looks like a neat, odd ball, piece of equipment that may look good with my Tichy wrecker crane. The other three most likely will not see much activity on my part.

I also recently aquired an 8 car set of American Beauty passenger cars that have been assembled, after a fashion, by the father of the fellow I bought them from. He said his father bought them in New York while on business in the 1950s. They have metal car sides painted in two town grey that looks to me like the NYC 20th Century Ltd of the era, the man said he thought they were Pennsy. American Beauty models were made in Detroit, according to the instructions sheets in each box, and had metal, sprung 2 axle trucks. The under car details were made of wooden blocks and dowels and are a bit less than you might find on a Walther's or Branchline car today.

I've always been facinated by the old structure kits but have not found any. I do see some on eBay at times, usually when I am not able to buy anything or forgot to look toward end or auction to see the bid price.

I agree with the comments above about the old vs the laser kits of today.



Karl Scribner
Sunfield Twp. Michigan
H.M.F.I.C
Kentucky Southern Railway
The Spartan Line

Edited by - k9wrangler on 10/21/2005 09:21:30 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 10833 Go to Top of Page

k9wrangler
Engineer



Posted - 10/21/2005 :  09:16:55 AM  Show Profile
I've never ventured too far into old kits after ordering and anxiosly awaiting the Quality Craft models Liquid Oxygen tank car kit which was modeled after an Air Reduction Co. car that actually was in and out of the now defunct AirCo plant in my home town. I once actually saw the same numbered car as in the ad for the kit. While the car shown was in AirCo paint and correct numbers on the kit box and instructions the Logo and lettering were airbrushed out and the decals in the kit were for another company. When I opened the box, 1/2 dozen metal castings for the tank ends and undercar bolsters I took a deep breath and after reading the part about taking 1/16" wooden strip wood and steaming it to bend the ribs for the tank it went back into the box and never was even started.

I recently bought 4 Ambroid kits at an area antique mall, Plugdoor box car, Covered hopper, NKP Caboose and the Work caboose baggage combine car. I found them to be comeplete even with the plastic bag of parts still sealed with staples and the wadded up newsprint type paper there as well. I MAY sometime attempt the work caboose as it looks like a neat, odd ball, piece of equipment that may look good with my Tichy wrecker crane. The other three most likely will not see much activity on my part.

I also recently aquired an 8 car set of American Beauty passenger cars that have been assembled, after a fashion, by the father of the fellow I bought them from. He said his father bought them in New York while on business in the 1950s. They have metal car sides painted in two town grey that looks to me like the NYC 20th Century Ltd of the era, the man said he thought they were Pennsy. American Beauty models were made in Detroit, according to the instructions sheets in each box, and had metal, sprung 2 axle trucks. The under car details were made of wooden blocks and dowels and are a bit less than you might find on a Walther's or Branchline car today.

I've always been facinated by the old structure kits but have not found any. I do see some on eBay at times, usually when I am not able to buy anything or forgot to look toward end or auction to see the bid price.

I agree with the comments above about the old vs the laser kits of today.



Karl Scribner
Sunfield Twp. Michigan
H.M.F.I.C
Kentucky Southern Railway
The Spartan Line

Edited by - k9wrangler on 10/21/2005 09:21:30 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 10833 Go to Top of Page

slimrails
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 10/21/2005 :  09:33:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit slimrails's Homepage
When you look at an old Ambroid, Northeastern, Gloor/Qulaity Craft, or Silver Streak kit, you have to think in terms of those being the real craftsman kits of their day. And just like many of the older models of the time, they were not the most accurate to scale because of the materials used in the kit. Clunky white metal castings, undersized doors, deeply grooved wood siding, etc. But when built, painted, and decaled, they were great! Our quality standards have changed with technological advances, so we may look at these kits as being quaint. I like to get them to build as a basic 'shell' and then make my own additions and changes from there. I have built some of these kits 'as is'...the EBT hopper, EBT caboose, Erie Caboose, etc. but always have an eye to "Hudson Electrify" the kit. With my latest acquisition, the Silver Streak side door/bay window caboose, it'll probably have the boxcar outside sliding doors replaced with inside sliding baggage car doors, Andrews trucks, working markers, etc. With details from Grandt Line or other manufacturers, good paint, and sharp decals, these kits can make unique additions to our sometimes 'predictable' rosters.


Country: USA | Posts: 8426 Go to Top of Page

slimrails
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 10/21/2005 :  09:33:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit slimrails's Homepage
When you look at an old Ambroid, Northeastern, Gloor/Qulaity Craft, or Silver Streak kit, you have to think in terms of those being the real craftsman kits of their day. And just like many of the older models of the time, they were not the most accurate to scale because of the materials used in the kit. Clunky white metal castings, undersized doors, deeply grooved wood siding, etc. But when built, painted, and decaled, they were great! Our quality standards have changed with technological advances, so we may look at these kits as being quaint. I like to get them to build as a basic 'shell' and then make my own additions and changes from there. I have built some of these kits 'as is'...the EBT hopper, EBT caboose, Erie Caboose, etc. but always have an eye to "Hudson Electrify" the kit. With my latest acquisition, the Silver Streak side door/bay window caboose, it'll probably have the boxcar outside sliding doors replaced with inside sliding baggage car doors, Andrews trucks, working markers, etc. With details from Grandt Line or other manufacturers, good paint, and sharp decals, these kits can make unique additions to our sometimes 'predictable' rosters.


Country: USA | Posts: 8426 Go to Top of Page

Archbar Jesse
New Hire

Posted - 10/21/2005 :  10:01:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Archbar Jesse's Homepage
quote:
For instance, at one point he says. "...laser cutting has replaced die cutting because it is better."

Oh sure. Laser cut elements with the grain going sideways is WAY better than Northeastern milled wood any day.


AMEN! Preach it, TC&W!

quote:
When you look at an old Ambroid, Northeastern, Gloor/Qulaity Craft, or Silver Streak kit, you have to think in terms of those being the real craftsman kits of their day. And just like many of the older models of the time, they were not the most accurate to scale because of the materials used in the kit. Clunky white metal castings, undersized doors, deeply grooved wood siding, etc. But when built, painted, and decaled, they were great! Our quality standards have changed with technological advances, so we may look at these kits as being quaint.


I'm saving a few of the simpler matboard-and-stripwood Old West structure kits from California Scale Models. I hope one day to have a son or daughter to build them with. Part of my enjoyment of the old kits is that I feel in touch with a bygone era when I build one. It's sort of like going into a time machine.

But then again, this whole nutty hobby is sort of like that, isn't it? :D


"In capitalism, man exploits man. In communism, it's the other way around."

Country: USA | Posts: 14 Go to Top of Page

Archbar Jesse
New Hire

Posted - 10/21/2005 :  10:01:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Archbar Jesse's Homepage
quote:
For instance, at one point he says. "...laser cutting has replaced die cutting because it is better."

Oh sure. Laser cut elements with the grain going sideways is WAY better than Northeastern milled wood any day.


AMEN! Preach it, TC&W!

quote:
When you look at an old Ambroid, Northeastern, Gloor/Qulaity Craft, or Silver Streak kit, you have to think in terms of those being the real craftsman kits of their day. And just like many of the older models of the time, they were not the most accurate to scale because of the materials used in the kit. Clunky white metal castings, undersized doors, deeply grooved wood siding, etc. But when built, painted, and decaled, they were great! Our quality standards have changed with technological advances, so we may look at these kits as being quaint.


I'm saving a few of the simpler matboard-and-stripwood Old West structure kits from California Scale Models. I hope one day to have a son or daughter to build them with. Part of my enjoyment of the old kits is that I feel in touch with a bygone era when I build one. It's sort of like going into a time machine.

But then again, this whole nutty hobby is sort of like that, isn't it? :D


"In capitalism, man exploits man. In communism, it's the other way around."

Country: USA | Posts: 14 Go to Top of Page

brakie
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 10/21/2005 :  1:07:29 PM  Show Profile
Dave said:But you know what?-- we're wrong! If you don't believe me, re-read Bill Schaumburg's rant starting on page 8 of the September, 2005 Railroad Model Craftsman. Apparently all those old kits we love/loved were actually crap.
===============================================
Dave,I read that rant and threw the magazine down in disgust! IMHO that is worst then modelers saying Penn-Line,Varney,Hobbytown of Boston,old brass engines,brass track,wooden kits etc was junk..These unlearned modelers should understand the history of the hobby better and realized things like that worked(and still does) and if it didn't there would be NO HOBBY today known as model railroading.
IMHO the wooden structures kits look far better then any plastic structure.




Country: USA | Posts: 6979 Go to Top of Page

brakie
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 10/21/2005 :  1:07:29 PM  Show Profile
Dave said:But you know what?-- we're wrong! If you don't believe me, re-read Bill Schaumburg's rant starting on page 8 of the September, 2005 Railroad Model Craftsman. Apparently all those old kits we love/loved were actually crap.
===============================================
Dave,I read that rant and threw the magazine down in disgust! IMHO that is worst then modelers saying Penn-Line,Varney,Hobbytown of Boston,old brass engines,brass track,wooden kits etc was junk..These unlearned modelers should understand the history of the hobby better and realized things like that worked(and still does) and if it didn't there would be NO HOBBY today known as model railroading.
IMHO the wooden structures kits look far better then any plastic structure.




Country: USA | Posts: 6979 Go to Top of Page

Thorn Creek and Western
Fireman



Posted - 10/22/2005 :  11:04:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thorn Creek and Western's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Archbar Jesse

AMEN! Preach it, TC&W!


OK! So today's castings are so much better, huh? Well, I just bought a not inexpensive DPM GOLD Detailed Edition kit and you know what? The metal castings are as crappy as 1956 Selleys.
-Dave


-Dave

Country: USA | Posts: 2456 Go to Top of Page

Thorn Creek and Western
Fireman



Posted - 10/22/2005 :  11:04:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thorn Creek and Western's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Archbar Jesse

AMEN! Preach it, TC&W!


OK! So today's castings are so much better, huh? Well, I just bought a not inexpensive DPM GOLD Detailed Edition kit and you know what? The metal castings are as crappy as 1956 Selleys.
-Dave


-Dave

Country: USA | Posts: 2456 Go to Top of Page

slimrails
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 10/23/2005 :  06:35:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit slimrails's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Creek and WesternThe metal castings are as crappy as 1956 Selleys.


As crappy as 1956 Selleys?

AS CRAPPY AS 1956 SELLEYS?

Yeah, those castings back then were pretty funny. I like the LPs...they look like featureless blobs. And the windows all look like they're made out of scale 6"X6"s!



Country: USA | Posts: 8426 Go to Top of Page
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