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Registration is FREE!  Posting Form Screensize: 640 x 480 800 x 600 1024 x 768 1280 x 1024 UserName: Password: Format Mode: Basic  Help  Prompt  Format: Font Andale Mono Arial Arial Black Book Antiqua Century Gothic Comic Sans MS Courier New Georgia Impact Lucida Console Script MT Bold Stencil Tahoma Times New Roman Trebuchet MS Verdana   Size 1 2 3 4 5 6   Color Black Red Yellow Pink Green Orange Purple Blue Beige Brown Teal Navy Maroon LimeGreen Callouts: Message Icon:                             Smilies [quote][i]Originally posted by silveradonorthern[/i] [br]Hi Everyone, Switching from HO to O scale has meant doing things in a different way. Since the R.R. I ‘was’ building had limited space I started designing my own structures with a smaller footprint than what is generally available commercially. To get a feel for how the finished model might look I started building foam-core mock-ups. The small amount of time it takes to create one pays off in dividends when the building process begins. Often I find I need to make corrections to the original design. Since I’m building the Leaverite Mine from a set of plans I’m pretty sure the overall look will be fine but I still felt I’d need to see things in 3D. The following are a few emails between Kris and myself. These occurred after I’d enlarged the HO Leaverite plans to O scale. From me to Kris: On a slightly different front I made my partial mock-up of the two main structures. Quite an eye opener! No pictures as yet but I'll pass them along when I do. From Kris to me: BTW, Was it the overall structure sizes or how the size coupled with the angles which took you by surprise, and was the "eye opener"? From me to Kris: Both! LOL My brain still see models in HO scale. This project especially. The Leaverite section is bigger than any model railroad structure I've built to date. It is going to be a real challenge. Also the ore bin section of the Silverado Mine is much taller than I'd imaged. It is almost as tall as the head frame on the LM. I've got to wait and see how the two structures work together at different elevations but I might be inclined to lower the ore bin house a bit. This is a case for me where the mock-ups will play such a crucial role in the overall project. From Kris to me: Humm... Mock-ups may be a must do after reading your comments. Some of my stuff will be built on the fly, so I'm not sure how much of the mock up I'll do for some part of the diorama. Like you, I also tend to think in HO terms, and that is what has me worried about this O scale diorama, in particular the vertical distances. This is the picture I sent Kris. It was taken during a short break in the weather. [img]data/silveradonorthern/201128204438_MockUpa.jpg[/img] From me to Kris: As you can see my mock-ups aren't anything fancy. I did only enough to get a feel for things. I haven't really worked out all the smaller structures and probably will do as you and build them on the fly. I meant to lay a yardstick down to give an idea of size but forgot. By the time I thought of redoing the pictures the weather had changed. From the left hand side of the ore bin to the right hand side of the main structure it is 21." From the front of the ore bin to the rear of the head frame it is 17" deep. From the ground level (where the ore bin sit) to the top of the sheave it is about 17 1/2" The separation in levels between the two structures is 4." Big Huh! After I had sent the picture shown above to Kris our conversation continued. From me to Kris: I probably wasn't real clear on this. My plan was to combine the Leaverite Mine pretty much as designed and marry that to the Ore Bin of the SM with the conveyor. That is how the mock-up was put together. Having done so I'm not 100% sold on the plan. Some of my current concerns are: 1.) The difference between the ground level of the ore bin and the level the LM sits on. Currently it is 16 scale feet higher. 2.) The line projected along the back of the ore bin is only about 10 scale feet forward of the LM front. 3.) The distance between the right side of the ore bin and the outermost mine track awning (left side LM) is about 14 scale feet. This layout was conceived working with the angles from the SM mine. I did need to lengthen the conveyor from 28 scale feet to 48 scale feet. Thinking/Questioning out load how am I going to deal the extreme topography? Retaining walls or a rock face might work but I wonder if the finished product would seem a 'bit' too contrived. Why would the mine have been built in such a manner? Is there a reasonable answer/solution? I really like the looks of the LM and want to build it pretty much by the book, adding the conveyor structure at a point where it is shown in the mock-up. Beyond that I'm open to a new approach. One option is to use your idea of a conveyor with two different angles. I could see the ore traveling along one leg then dropping down to continue along a different leg. This would allow greater separation of the two main structures both side to side and front to back. The conveyor could enter the ore bin in the back rather than on the side. Another option which might work would be to have a creek running between the two structures. From Kris to me: One quick question and thought to throw into your thinking... How about doing both mines pretty much as the plans call for, using the additional mine on a 3rd main level in the scenery? In reality, there were a lot of mines almost on top of one another. Also, there is the old rule of 3's, and the second mine would allow you to be able to work with a couple additional components. These extra components would allow you to do a bit more with the visual triangle, with one overall triangle to the diorama, and then each of the three points of the overall triangle being smaller triangles within the larger one. From me to Kris: Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not sure I want two large structures competing with each other. I've made the decision to build the LM per the plans. I really like all the different angles in that structure and want to make it the focus for my diorama. I think the ore bin structure from the SM is just too massive and takes away from the LM. I'm going to investigate a much smaller ore bin like the ones you are planning to use from Anvil Mountain Models. I'm also considering using one or both of the ore bins (enlarged from HO to O) from Campbell Scale Models. I really like the one on the left [Edit: the pictures sent to Kris are copyrighted and thus can’t be shown here.] with the stairway along the side of the structure. I might also build the head frame structure form the other kit and use that as my third structure. In any case I think I'll need to build a conveyor house and conveyor to get the ore up into the bin. I'm still thinking of a creek to divide the LM from the ore bin. I'd have the mine track run out from the LM across a trestle to span the creek then into the conveyor house. I just wonder if a vertical mine shaft would be so close to water and would the mine be flooded from that. I could make it a dry creek bed. I'm going to leave it at this point. More to come! As always questions and comments are more than welcome. [/quote]    -  HTML is OFF | Forum Code is ON    Insert a File     Check here to include your profile signature. Check here to subscribe to this topic.      T O P I C    R E V I E W hon3_rr Posted - 01/04/2011 : 11:11:14 AM “Have you ever wanted to redo a model to ‘dress it up’ once it is set in a diorama? How about trying the model in a different scale, or add in some other kits which can really ‘kick-up’ the final scene?” The above statement was part of my closing comments from the Silverado Mine diorama completed last year. The build thread can be located at: http://www.railroad-line.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25712&whichpage=1 The opening paragraph is the “mission statement” for this new thread AND YOU ARE INVITED TO JOIN IN. Over the next 6 weeks or so we will have some meetings and discuss plans on how we can bring that ore bearing rock to the surface and what surface structures we may want to build. Actual construction is projected to start in mid February, so everyone will have time to get the wood and other needed components to their building sites. There is also a very strong commitment from the Gilpin Tram management team to have tracks available to be picking up ore from the various mine sites in time for the Seattle National Narrow Gauge convention, so we have about 2 years to build the mine dioramas. For my part, I plan to again use the Silverado Mine plan set from CC Crow. I have decided to build the mine again, but in O-scale and dress up the structure with items which I wish I had added to the completed HO model, such as more platforms, outside stairways, tension rods, etc. I’ll add a larger overall mine scene, with a couple more tipples and a ore tram track and steam pipes crossing the main tracks. ***THE BIG PLAN*** I have decided to add at least two, and possibly three, SierraWest Scale Model kits to the diorama. One will be the O-scale Tool Shed which is currently under construction. http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26900&whichpage=16 The second will be the O-scale Mill Engine and Boilerhouse. Most of the modifications to the second kit will be in the form of interior castings. I think if one looks, you can probably see how the Boilerhouse kit can be fairly easily substituted for the hoist house on the completed HO diorama. http://sierrawestscalemodels.com/oscale/300/300.shtml And yes, I will be keeping the big boiler and steam engine. It's the far back wall which will be modified. With a bit of modification the new SierraWest Scale Models Wood Cutter’s Shack can become a compressor house. Anvil Mountain Models ( http://www.anvilmountainmodels.com ) has some ore bins which will be used to provide additional interest to and expand the diorama scene. A water tank and explosives bunker will also be included in the distant hillsides of the diorama. As a side note, by holding construction off until mid-February, it will allow time for those who need it to complete current projects. (For myself, I will be completing a Hunted House build.) So if you are interested in joining in, we would love to have you. You may have noted by the thread title that there are at least two mines going up here. I’ll turn over the soap box to Michael (aka: silveradonorthern) for a few words. 15   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First) Frederic Testard Posted - 04/13/2013 : 10:00:29 AM Great news, Jerry. I'm really happy to read this. Nobody knows about Michael? TRAINS1941 Posted - 04/13/2013 : 08:13:40 AM Frederic I have been talking (emailing) with Kris the last week or so. He has been busy with clinics and such. But said he was working on his own stuff again and hopefully we will see this moving forward. Frederic Testard Posted - 04/13/2013 : 06:52:21 AM Yes, this one has been quiet for a long time. Does any forum member have some news from Kris and Michael? LynnB Posted - 04/10/2013 : 10:18:07 AM Just wanted to give this a bump, great topic. hon3_rr Posted - 06/08/2012 : 11:54:55 AM Thanks Karl. Below you will find the walls again, but this time the front wall (wall on the left) has had the Silverwood wash applied, which toned the wall down a bit and helped in making it more presentable. One can easily see the difference in the color of the wall simply by quickly comparing the picture below to the picture posted yesterday. This last Silverwood wash was applied using a #1 fan brush with a moist ‘dry brush’ technique. The walls will be toned down just a bit more with the final light A-I wash which will be applied once the nail holes and window frames are in place. Well... I have to admit here that I really, really screwed up in the construction of the front wall. I ran face first flat into one of the issues of doing long term projects and putting the project aside for a more than a few weeks at a time. It does not show in the pictures, but the front wall on the tall end is a full 1/16th of an inch taller than the back wall. Both walls rear heights are the same, and the windows match up when the floor framing is matched. (There are overhang boards on the bottom of the walls which extend past where the floor will be located.) I thought that had checked with calipers the frame heights on the second (front) wall drawing against the rear wall template drawing, but I obviously did not do so. I must have miscounted squares on the grid lined paper on which I draw the framing templates and from which I made my cutting measurements. As I had such a delay between the two walls, I had reset my chopper stop and only looked at the template I was working on. I have not screwed up like this since modeling in the 6th or 7th grade. Anyway, this is something we all have done somewhere, and the trick is how to handle it. I could do what I usually do in this situation, and that is a total rebuild of the wall. But due to time constraints, I’d like to come up with an alternate fix. I have decided that since the rear wall (the one which is short) will not be seen normally once the structure is on the diorama, I can do a hide and seek fix. I’m going to add a 1/16th in square (the paper grid lines are 1/16th inch) strip wood piece to the top of the rear wall and then cut/sand the piece to match the slope of the front wall. When I’m doing the roof, I’ll put a full length roof rafter on the outside of both walls, butted up against both walls. This will hide the rear wall fix when viewed by the few folks (read judges) who may see the rear of the structure. The ends will of course be covered by siding. This may not be prototypical, and I may have to use a bit larger than usual rafters, but I think that I can hide the error & fix in fairly short order. I’ll document the fix as we move forward. UKGuy Posted - 06/07/2012 : 10:48:20 PM Nice work on that wall Kris, the warmer tones really look good and give a nice contrast to the orebin. Great to read you will be making progress again Frederic, Summer holidays are one of the perks of the job..... I look forward to seeing your next installment. Karl.A (I'm sure with, planning for next years classes, teachers meetings and other such duties the six week vacation that the students get will be eaten into severely for yourself, however, hopefully you will be able to grab a few hours to enjoy yourself) hon3_rr Posted - 06/07/2012 : 5:04:41 PM Great minds.... or is it 'mines'..... Frederic Testard Posted - 06/07/2012 : 2:33:38 PM This is a really nice, warm color, Kris. It's funny you post this the very day I restarted the work on the landscape near the kitchen and the Allison mine. TRAINS1941 Posted - 06/07/2012 : 12:43:22 PM Kris Great work. Really like the way it shows how the Silverwood changes things and tones it down. Really happy to see the comparsion. And glad to see you back at the bench working on this again. Jerry milocomarty Posted - 06/07/2012 : 12:23:02 PM Nice color tone's , like it ! hon3_rr Posted - 06/07/2012 : 10:34:06 AM Well, finally got the large volume of strip wood colored and the second long (front) ore bin house wall completed. On this front wall I was shooting for the brighter orange hues just below/under the top and middle cross timbers on the ore bin. The brighter orange colored wall is going to become the front wall facing the viewers. As you will note, there is a large coloring difference between the two walls. The coloring difference is probably mainly due to the fact that I did not wash the strip wood with the Silverwood wash prior to coloring the wood as I did on the first wall. So this picture really brings out how the base coloring of the wood affects the final coloring when using chalks. If you refer back to page 10 of this thread, there is a step-by-step instructions on how I colored the wood used in the walls. I skipped step #2 on the brighter front wall. I have not yet gone back and used the second Silverwood wash in this photo. I'm hoping that with the additional wash the wall will tone down and blend a bit better. But I did want to show the wall in it's current state so you can see the effects of step #2 in the wood coloring. I'll try to post tomorrow another shot showing the wall after the second Silverwood wash. Ensign Posted - 03/31/2012 : 11:19:12 AM Hey Kris, great tip about using the glue/toothpick/bin. Though,by the looks of it you may have an Altoids addiction. Greg Shinnie brownbr Posted - 03/31/2012 : 11:12:05 AM impressive framing. Lots of planning and effort went into that. hon3_rr Posted - 03/31/2012 : 10:58:09 AM Thanks all for taking a peek at what I'm up to. I KNOW that Michael has been working a bit in the background on his modeling and is working on some coloring issues which he wanted to work out. Not sure why as his stuff is just frigging outstanding to my eye... So maybe we can get him back here soon. For myself, thought that I'd post a couple of pictures of my model work bench with the project under construction. I very often study the few pictures of modelers benches to see how they are doing things, but we often do not see 'the bench' and what is really going on in the construction phase. So, with that in mind thought I'd just throw a couple of pictures in for those who may want to see 'where I live', all of the about 24x36 inches of it. In the first picture you can see how I use some of the different weights/squares and triangles to hold down the frame pieces and to get the frame square and in a single plane. You can also see how I will cut a piece a bit long to fit an angle, and then angle sand both ends of the piece. (See the piece at the end of the tweezers.) I then 'test fit' both ends prior to cutting the piece to size at at the end with the 90 degree square cut. This allows me to get the best possible angle end. In addition, if for some reason I am not happy with either angle end, I simply re-sand that angle and try again. Good fitting pieces make for a better glue joint in my experience. The second picture is more of the same, but a bit more of the overview of the actual bench. The big MODELERS TIP here is something which is not really seen. I have started using a high quality packing tape, the 2 inch wide stuff to tape down/cover the plans. I have for years used the wax paper trick for covering plans, but have discovered that withthe packing tape is even easier to remove parts from the tape than the wax paper. The glue just does not stick as much as it does to the wax paper. In addition, I don't experience the 'stretching' of the wax paper or plans below the wax paper, which used to be a problem for me with projects going over a few days or weeks. The third advantage is that the packing tape does not cut quit as easily as the wax paper. Finally, if you cut just outside of the plans/constructed piece, you can lift up the plans and lightly bend the plans/tape away from the constructed piece. You also have the plans ready to store or use in a modeling contest if desired. (Like submitting with the paperwork for that AP merit award.) NOTE: BE SURE TO USE THE GOOD STUFF FOR THE TAPE, like Scotch or 3M products. The cheaper packing tape just does not work for some reason. I use the Scotch brand. One other tick I use here which often gets comments at shows is the glue/toothpick bin. It is an Altoid's tin with toothpicks loaded in the tin and old business cards in the lid. I sit the tin so that the lid is on the glass sheet and the bin is off of the glass, thus the lid is flat. I just put glue on the top business and rest used tootpicks in the glue dab. I just toss the business card when it gets loaded with glue and used toothpicks, and a fresh card is ready for use. The final picture shows how my work area has been for the past 5 days. I just have not gotten any modeling done, even though I have planed to do so every day. The large amount of strip wood is all grained and ready for staining. The reason for the large amount of wood is that I'm also coloring the wood for the conveyor house which goes between the ore bin house and the shaft house. This will allow me a larger amount of colored wood to draw from for the front of the ore bin, which due to the chutes and other details, catches the viewer's eye and is more of the focus than the any of the other components within the scene. The other tip here is the use of the forum. Not only is it a great place to get ideas, but one can document their work. For the coloring of the bundle of strip wood.... thank God for page 10 of this thread. I documented how I colored the wood and can now reproduce it... Well, I hope this little novel allowed you a bit more insight, and that maybe with the tip or two you have gleaned here that your modeling tasks will become a bit more friendly. As always... comments and discussions are welcome. ETinBH Posted - 03/25/2012 : 10:11:21 AM Kris - looks good - would probably expect the end boards to be a bit more gringy from all that wear - whacha think? Railroad Line Forums © 2000-13 Railroad Line Co.
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