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 Time to Build It - small, pre-auto, shelf layout
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2020 :  10:23:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob, I agree too many layouts are too flat. Iím trying to include interesting topography for this design. Itís been one of my goals from the start. Both Loganton and Sonestown have terrain incorporated, but my Dushore design takes the prize so far. Iíll try to make a point of posting that 3D mockup soon.

I guess deep down I know the Micro-Scale depot is too fancy... or I wouldnít have asked for opinions. Sigh... maybe itíll find a home on a future layout. Iím leaning strongly towards building the Werley depot. There are one or two other kits Iím considering though. A couple from B.T.S. come to mind...

Dave, I had too google the Mason bogies. Holy cow! What lovely engines! I know very little about their history. Era, geographic distribution, etc. More research needed. There were quite a few Forneys here in the East... thatís a consideration. But Iíve always liked a 2-6-0 narrow gauge rod engine... and my tastes are for Climaxes and Gilbert/Dunkirk geared steam. But man, I gotta know more about these Masons...

Faire! Neat link and glad you like the photos. The dairy industry is really interesting, with lots of variety. Almost a universal industry in large and small towns everywhere at the turn of the century. Even small narrow gauge railroads like the Eagles Mere, White Deer & Loganton, Tuscarora Valley, and the Dinky had dedicated milk cars. Goes to show how important the milk industry was. PLEASE start an ďearly industryĒ thread for dairy. Just title it like the rest so they sorta stay as a group. Maybe eventually we could create a sticky here in Early Rail with links to each of the industry threads.

Fun, fun, fun.

What to do about a depot....? Hmmm...
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cofg25
New Hire

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2020 :  10:30:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ryan, for HOn3 cars and a neat Midwest NG depot have you looked at http://mountbluemodelco.com ?

Mike
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2020 :  10:31:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
PS - Bob, the Dinky book has drawings of the coach. Let me know if you like a look. Also... the coaches were apparently painted yellow. Not my favorite color for a coach. Ugh. :)
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railman28
Fireman

USA
5552 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2020 :  2:04:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RyanAK

PS - Bob, the Dinky book has drawings of the coach. Let me know if you like a look. Also... the coaches were apparently painted yellow. Not my favorite color for a coach. Ugh. :)



Yes, I would like to see that drawing. And I agree, there are too many yellow coaches around. though we still need a good 40' duckbill coach in HO.

Bob

It's only make-believe
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2020 :  2:20:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
PM me your email address, pal.
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brian budeit
New Hire

USA
34 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2020 :  2:36:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm pretty sure one of those C&NW moguls still exist on display somewhere in the north west. They went to another railroad after the C&NW (Pioche Pacific??) and one was put in a park.
As far as mason bogies, only one narrow gauge bogie in Pennsylvania. Peach Bottom Railway Middle Division, a predecessor of the Ma & Pa, had an early light 0-6-6 bogie, smaller boiler than the south park engines. It was hard on the track, not well liked, and was gone from the roster after a few years. No record of where it went, so......., if your freelancing, it could have gone to your railroad.
Balboa and PFM imported 2-6-6's in the sixties, modelers love them, and they sell high. Operation-wise, they need some work. Main problem is the bogie is hinged in the back, and doesn't track well. They hate #4 turnouts most of all. Converting to a center pivot helps, but you are still dealing with noisy gear train and a fiber worm gear. These aren't always a problem, but if the worm is out of adjustment the fiber gear gets eaten up quickly. The Gazette had an article years ago on making a bogie run better. I've seen some very nice rebuilt models that were a labor of love, the owner really wanted a bogie.
One other company in the past ten-fifteen years brought in high end painted models. Expensive when new, pretty much unobtainium now.
Keep looking for that Climax, or re detail a Blackstone consolidation. ( the San Pete Valley engine is very nice). The Eagles Mere had a consol, you could too. They were however, rare in Pa., only nine total in service. Usually too heavy for the rails, and too long a wheelbase for the curves.
brian b

Edited by - brian budeit on 02/07/2020 2:38:35 PM
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2020 :  3:12:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hiya, Brian. Thanks for checking in. I was just reading up on the bogies and think one wouldnít do for this layout. Iím searching for a that Climax. Always. Thatís my dream locomotive. Iíll re-detail a Blackstone consolidation and Iím watching for a Mogul to pop up. That will be a fun project.

Another consideration... Forney?
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brian budeit
New Hire

USA
34 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2020 :  4:36:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
MTS, usually a traction supplier, brought in El forneys in hon3, and AWE brought in the same prototype, the original run was rejected by MTS due to crooked cylinders and resold by AWE. The AWE engines, according to Wayne Weiss, the loco doc, have a better drive train, and a faulhaber motor. And, they sell cheaper than the MTS ones. I have an AWE engine, and after a little shimming of the driver bearings in the frame, its a sweet running engine. The cylinders are an easy fix. I don't know of any narrow gauge El forneys that made it to Pa, just standard gauge, but no reason not to have a model of one.
I've also seen the Erie Limited 2-4-2 kit built into a forney. Chris McChesney described it in a booklet he did on modeling Maine 2 foot prototypes. The Erie Limited model was also offered in hon3. It would make up into a nice model of TVRR's T H Paul built forney. This project is on my long list of things to build.:). A number of Pa narrow gauges had forneys, off hand the Pittsburgh & Castle Shannon had a very nice Pittsburgh built 0-4-4 in passenger service.
In the sixties, a number of companies, last being LMB imported an hon3 outside frame forney. It was large, more sn2 than hon3. They are fairly common and show up once in a while for decent prices.
Ryan, I think you need to build something, waiting for that engine to arrive. How about that milk car from the EM, WD&L, and finally TVRR? Give a good start to the milk traffic . Also, you mentioned Railway Engineering turnouts. Folks on the hon3 list are asking when Steven Hatch, the owner, is going to make up their orders. One guy has been waiting quite a while. Maybe go with Peco or Micro Engineering ready made and use code 70 on the main and go down to code 55 on the sidings?

brian b
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2020 :  5:04:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Im gonna build something! Making a shopping list to scratch a little ice house and maybe the Werley depot. My car-building skills arenít where they need to be yet to tackle a scratch build of the milk car. Thereís actually a prit-near example of the EMRR-WD&L-TVRR milk car on Shapeways Iím considering. Search HOn3 milk car.

Eagles Mere Ryís short-lived consolidation is one of the reasons Iím considering the Blackstone 2-8-0. Even though it didnít work out on the EMRR, there was ONE narrow gauge Baldwin consolidation in PA... even though lighter than the Class 70s and it was eventually dismissed as unsuccessful. The Blackstone matches up fairly well.


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Faire to Midland
New Hire

USA
26 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2020 :  01:01:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought for sure I had a bigger photo of this creamery that once stood in Monument Colorado, but I'm damned if I can find it on the computer. I remember taking a photo of this old photo somewhere, maybe on a library wall or a historical marker or something. Unfortunately all I can find is this cropped shrunken photo. I'm not sure of the date, but it looks pre-auto to me.

I especially dig the decoration on the front of the icehouse, and the huge pile of sawdust for insulation. I also think it's interesting how the buildings appear to coordinate, but don't really match. Not sure if they were two linked but separate companies?

Anyway, thought you'd find the photo as interesting as I did.


Edited by - Faire to Midland on 02/08/2020 01:04:46 AM
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2020 :  10:33:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Faire - fantastic photo. I too love the decoration and especially the sawdust pile. Just terrific. I just started the Ďearly industryí thread for milk. That one should be really interesting.

Brian, the more you chime in on brass, the more I realize just how unknowledgeable I am about these options for a locomotive. I really appreciate the knowledge youíre sharing. Iím paying attention and hope I make good choices!

Letís build an ice house. Thoughts on size and prototype examples appreciated. Wood or card? Hmmm...
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Michael Hohn
Fireman

USA
6122 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2020 :  11:32:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ryan,

Have you ever worked in styrene? Itís ideal for neat, well-built, painted structures such as ice houses. Plus, Evergreen has sheets of shiplap that screams turn of the century.

Mike
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2020 :  08:17:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, Mike. I haven't worked in styrene. I almost always default to wood for pretty much any project since I'm familiar and enjoy working with it. Maybe now is the time to expand horizons? I like that styrene has profiles appropriate for our era. Love shiplap. Use it quite a bit on my 1:1 1860 farmhouse.

My other consideration is possibly doing a masonry foundation. Need to look into that...

I'm noticing that the LHSs in my area really don't stock anything for scratchbuilding except for token strip wood and some styrene on the rack. Anyone have a good source online for windows, doors, wood, styrene, details, etc. with good descriptions/measurements? I'm working up a little drawing, but sorta lost on acquiring the bits and bobs to put it together.
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Michael Hohn
Fireman

USA
6122 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2020 :  09:52:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
For windows, doors etc. the place to go is directly to Tichy: www.tichytraingroup.com Drawings and measurements are all there. Free shipping for orders above $50.
Prompt service.

Mike
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2020 :  10:20:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well... Tichy has it all! I got to see a few of their products in person last night at the LHS near where I'm staying before they turned the lights off on me at closing time. That solves the bits and bobs. I'll place an order soon once I have a list made up.

Also quickly got to look at some Evergreen styrene sheet. What a nice product. The packaging didn't have HO dimensions on it, and since I was rushed didn't have time to do the math to convert 1:1 spacing to scale. I'll need to look at what I'll need and place an order or be better prepared the next time I go to the shop. I'll also need to look at methods - glues, bracing, cutting, etc. Any advice or a point to a good tutorial here on RR-L is appreciated.

Need to figure out roofing. The LHS is so jammed with stuff the fella trying to point me to things I was asking about couldn't find any...

Ditto masonry foundations...


I've been organizing my structures list. Since this is a 'practice' layout, I want to try a few different methods. Here's where I'm at, and I'm looking for any input.

Structures

Depot - simple craftsman kit or scratch build Werley prototype (wood or styrene). I think this would be fun to build. The grounded narrow gauge box cars are really charming and I think this is a great structure to try my hand at styrene.

Ice House - scratch from Bristol card. I bought some things last night to give this a go. I have a few different methods in mind. Need something for a fieldstone foundation.

Creamery - scratch with wood or kitbash a craftsman kit. I'd like to find a structure kit that could be adapted into a small creamery. Most of the offerings available are pretty large operations. More 'milk collection house' than full-blown industry. There are a few small 'freight house' or 'MOW shed' kits that might be a good starting point. Appreciate any suggestions.

Stock pens - Campbell Scale kit. Either the 'Stock Pen' or 'Stock Yard'. (Operations thought... would a stock pen send out a gon of manure every once in a while?)

Team track - Dirt/Mud. Maybe a ramp or office, but most likely not.

Caboose / Coach / Combine Service - Very small ice shed and coal bin to replenish the caboose or passenger equipment. I bought a tiny craftsman kit from GC Laser called 'Caboose Servicing #2' to place next to the depot. It's only 1-1/2" x 2-1/8".

Locomotive Service - I might add a simple coal bin/platform to fuel the locomotive along the lead going to the turntable and detail with a rack for some cleanout tools and a cinder pile. Not sure if a tiny sandhouse would be appropriate or fit. I had considered a coal gondola on spur along side the turntable lead, but think I want to avoid another turnout and additional track. But I'll know more once I have some track to play with.

Water tower - Either choose a craftsman kit or scratch some ramshackle thing like the Werley prototype.

Section house? - Not sure if there's room for a small cabin/cottage for crews to overnight. Maybe they just head to the not-modeled tavern/inn in town for beans and sleep. Most likely will be a craftsman kit if this structure is included.

Outhouses - Craftsman kits wood or styrene. These often get overlooked but I think they add interest.

And... That's where this plan is currently heading. I'm gonna do the card ice house, then I'd like to build the depot or creamery. Thoughts, advice and suggestions always welcome fellas.

R
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