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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2020 :  11:55:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok... get a cup of coffee... or whiskey.... depending on when you settle in to read this.

This is the operations I have worked out for Werley as a terminus with a single siding and a turntable. No spur. I just wanted to see if it could be done. I haven’t yet done the measuring to see if it would fit in my 72” space, but for now, I don’t care. Ha.

I have noted lengths of cars, locomotive, caboose, switching leads, turnout length, siding length, etc. for later evaluation.

I had a whole narrative to go with this little novella, but we’ll save that for another time.

The ‘Rules’
I imposed some rules (based on various prototype practices) upon the scenario to add to the challenge. Nothing like taking a tough nut to crack and wrapping it in iron.

* I’ve set the time frame in late November. The railroad’s coaches and combines are equipped with steam heat, and as such need to be coupled directly behind the locomotive.
* Cabooses are in use on the railroad.
* The locomotive is a rod engine and will need to be turned.
* A maximum of (3) cars can begin spotted in town.
* Staging can (and must) be used as a switching lead. I usually don’t like this as I prefer all ‘action’ to be on scene, but some compromises must be made.
* The west lead must be long enough to have the locomotive and at least (1) car in the clear.
* A C-19 2-8-0 is huge for this line, but is available RTR, so I’m using that as my largest possible motive power.
* Cars are 30’ers.


The Setup
* There are (2) Stock cars loaded on the North siding for pick up.
* There is (1) Milk car that has overnighted on the South siding ready to leave town. (Because this came up in an earlier comment...)

This gives a challenge since the main isn’t clear to the West turnout.

Today’s train consists of (in this order...):
No. 1 - a C-19 2-8-0 Consolidation
30’ Coach
30’ empty pulp wood Flat car - to be set out
30’ full coal Gondola - for a town on the return trip (facing point spur)
30’ Box - to be set at Depot
25’ Caboose




Approaching Werley
The crew has been informed of the Milk car that had to be left on the S. siding the night before. They stop on the main East of town (staging), lash down the consist, and the Locomotive enters Werley light.




First Move
The Locomotive’s first move will be to clear the S. siding. They travel past the Depot and couple up to the Milk car that’s sitting at the Ice House. They back beyond the East turnout, throw the switch, and spot the Milk car on the N. siding.




The Morning Train Enters Werley
The Engine backs to the East, stops to return the switch to the S. siding, then continues to the East to grab the train. The full consist now enters Werley on the S. siding and stops with the Coach in front of the Depot.




Cows and Milk
The Engine uncouples and runs to the turntable West of the Depot area and turns. It moves off of the turntable and takes the N. siding where it collects the two Stock cars and the Milk car, pushing them to the East beyond the East turnout.




Caboose Takes a Turn
The Loco crew throws the East switch for the S. siding and, with cows and milk in tow, plucks the Caboose off the end of the train. The group then heads back beyond the E. turnout, throws the switch, then proceeds to the N. siding - Caboose, Locomotive, two Stock cars, and the Milk car. They run to the W. turnout where the Engine uncouples from the Stock and Milk cars, then proceeds through and spot the Caboose on the turntable.




Take Your Place... At the End of the Line
The Stock and Milk cars are then shuffled to the S. siding - one or two at a time depending on the length of the lead between the W. turnout and the turntable.

The Engine now runs down the clear N. siding to the East end of town and sets out the cars from the train to their designated spots, including the coal Gondola that will be leaving with the rest of the train. The Gon should be the last car spotted on the N. siding... that is, the Easternmost car.




Coach Lends a Hand(le)
The Locomotive now backs back down the S. siding and grabs the Coach. The move East past the E. turnout, throw the switch for the N. siding, and grab the Gondola.




Snag the ‘Boose
The Locomotive, Coach and Gon switch back to the S. siding and couple to the cars there. The (almost) full train then backs through the W. turnout and snags the Caboose from the turntable.

Drawing is WRONG! (Damnit!!) From East the order should be Loco, Coach, Gondola, Stock Car, Stock Car, Milk Car. The Coach and Gondola are reversed in my drawing.



Back Down the Pike
The full departing consist pulls forward and stops with the Coach spotted at the Depot. The Locomotive takes water at the tower. Once passengers are settled in, our train leaves Werley, heading East down the valley (to staging).

Drawing is WRONG AGAIN! (Damnit AGAIN!!) From East the order should be Loco, Coach, Gondola, Stock Car, Stock Car, Milk Car, Caboose. The Coach and Gondola are reversed in my drawing. Again.



So...
There ya have it. I think it works... feels authentic. Granted this is a pretty complex scenario with the Milk car already in town and two Stock cars loaded up. But I wanted to see if it would work.


Notes
* The C-19 needs an 8” turntable.
* Layout could be any length - number of cars on the layout is dictated by the length of the South siding. This is the length of all cars less the Engine and Caboose. For the above scenario, the South siding needs to accommodate (7) cars.
* This can only work with enough clear track between the turntable and W. turnout to accommodate the Locomotive and at least one car. Two car clearance will allow an operator to ‘shuffle’ cars off the N. siding and place them in any order in the outbound consist being build on the S. siding.

Well? Did I get it? Where did I go wrong?

Edited by - RyanAK on 01/13/2020 11:59:23 PM
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robchant
Fireman

Canada
1184 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2020 :  04:43:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ryan,

Well I will have to admit that I don't see any flaws in your operating scheme, and I was quite surprised that you were able to come up with a switching sequence that does get the train turned prototypically with just two turnouts. I also adjusted the design to fit your requirements (minus the finished scenery) and I was able to fit it all within the available 6-foot length.

The turntable is eight inches long, there is room for an 8-inch long loco with tender (I only had a K-28 available which is 8 1/16" over the couplers) and one 30-foot car between the west switch and the turntable. The south track (my mainline) will probably hold six 30-foot cars and the (too long) coach in the clear between turnouts. There is also room for the ice house, the stock yard, and the pulpwood lot in the design.

The trade off will be that the depot cannot be placed between the north and south tracks, and those tracks will have to be placed on 2-inch centers. Other than that, it should retain all the other characteristics of the original Werley track plan.

Great job ... I'm impressed!







Take care,
Rob.
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robchant
Fireman

Canada
1184 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2020 :  05:31:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ryan,

After having my morning coffee (I should have started there as you had suggested) I took another look at the design. I swapped out the #5 straight turnouts for #4 wyes and came up with an arrangement that should have room for the depot between the north and south tracks, and still meets all your other requirements. This version also clearly shows that 7 cars will fit in the clear between the two turnouts. I think the pulpwood pile would have to be placed above the north track, and I am not sure where the roadway would squeeze in if you wanted to retain that feature.



Take care,
Rob.
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jbvb
Fireman

USA
6358 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2020 :  09:12:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Most of the New England mixed train operations I know anything about had a coal stove in the passenger coach/combine. This was so heat continued uninterrupted while the loco switched. It also avoided wrestling with a frozen steam connection after each switching stop. And at -15F with wind, steam piping could freeze pretty quickly, sometimes even when it was connected to a locomotive.

Where a union contract was in effect, the actual train crew was either not allowed to make/break steam connections, or they got bonus pay for doing so (I'm checking which on another forum). So Car Dept. staff had to be available everywhere a steam heated passenger train was switched.
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2020 :  09:42:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey, jbvb. Thanks for the great input. I just added the 'rule' to try to further constrain/complicate the scenario and see if it would still work. The enclosed coach and combine of the White Deer & Loganton were steam heated, so I used that as a prototype 'rule'.

Wow, thanks Rob! Appreciate the quick design work. I've been pondering this all morning and I'm struck by this thought: Just because something can fit, doesn't mean you should make it fit. I think that while it works in 72", it feels forced. Your design with the spur ends up feeling much more authentic to the spirit of Werley. The need for the West switching lead and turntable just congests things too much. It also makes the layout feel 'unbalanced' from an aesthetic perspective.

Now... with 8'-10' with staging, this is a perfect, zero-compression, early prototype to model. Think about it: This is a prototype that could have been found in dozens of locations in the late-19th, early 20th century that give LOTS of operations and neat modeling opportunities in a small shelf with TWO turnouts. I think that's a pretty neat accomplishment, if somewhat radical by today's hobby dogma.

Here's the scaled map of Werely. 8' with staging gives you that open feel of the prototype with very little compression. I'm really trying to find 8' of wall space to gain this breathing room. If not, I think Rob's first design with the additional spur and operations plan is a winner. (Doesn't mean I'm not gonna stop researching other nifty options!)



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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2020 :  09:46:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
PS - If I were to start a blog (with zero layout actually built... ha...) I'd definitely concentrate on simple, uncompressed prototype locations that can be modeled. I think Werely proves that even the simplest of track arrangements can hold lots of operating interest. I mean... how long would the above 7-car scenario take to complete? How many variations can be set up between what's in town and what's arriving in the morning train? I think there's a lot of potential for extremely interesting storytelling.

R
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OK Hogger
Crew Chief

867 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2020 :  10:22:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Looks like you've got it figured out. Now it's time to saw some lumber and make some sawdust!

Beware analysis paralysis. Been there, done that.

Andre
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Hawghead
Section Hand

58 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2020 :  2:26:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ryan,

One of the problems I see is that Werley was not the end of the line. It appears to be a "whistle stop" between Fennimore and Woodman, where passengers were loaded and unloaded and a little freight switching was done.

To model it as prototypically as possible you'd have to have staging on both ends of your module, as it seems trains didn't reverse directions at Werley.

If you were to protolance it, Werley could be the end of a branch line, this would however necessitate some method of turning the engine here. Now you could run the outbound train's engine tender first which often was the case on small narrow gauge lines.

The first is simpler and more prototypical but the second takes less space.

Rob,
A C-19 requires a 50' turntable which scales out to 6.9, call it 7". The Rio Grande Southern had a 50' turntable at Ridgway but had to turn the K-27s at the wye as they wouldn't fit on the turntable there.

Scott

There's a prototype for everything.
If you can't make it perfect, make it adjustable.
DCC is not plug and play.

Edited by - Hawghead on 01/14/2020 2:31:44 PM
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robchant
Fireman

Canada
1184 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2020 :  3:01:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Figured I should post the map that I found of Werley Station since it is a bit different than the other map.

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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2020 :  3:10:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey, Scott. Yeah, this has a little freelance component where we created Werley as a terminus, not a station on the line. Mostly because when I build it (or another design), the layout will be abut a wall on the left end. So it's definitely a protolance end-of-branch-line design. That's where the turntable came in. I'd enjoy staging on both ends, but I just can't manage it in my space.

Now if I get things together and build that 3' gauge 25-ton Climax... no need to turn the locomotive.

I was just curious if an authentic design could be done with Werley as the inspiration for a narrow gauge terminus.
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Michael Hohn
Fireman

USA
6117 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2020 :  3:38:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ryan,

If you run at prototype speeds and allow time for the crew to do its work, most people would be surprised how much total time is required for dropping cars, pickups, reassembling the train and leaving town.

Mike
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Hawghead
Section Hand

58 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2020 :  01:36:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RyanAK

Hey, Scott. Yeah, this has a little freelance component where we created Werley as a terminus, not a station on the line. Mostly because when I build it (or another design), the layout will be abut a wall on the left end. So it's definitely a protolance end-of-branch-line design. That's where the turntable came in. I'd enjoy staging on both ends, but I just can't manage it in my space.

Now if I get things together and build that 3' gauge 25-ton Climax... no need to turn the locomotive.

I was just curious if an authentic design could be done with Werley as the inspiration for a narrow gauge terminus.



Ok, I just thought that you were reconsidering not making it a terminus. If you are still going in that direction, I think Rob's first track plan is still a winner.

Scott

There's a prototype for everything.
If you can't make it perfect, make it adjustable.
DCC is not plug and play.

Edited by - Hawghead on 01/15/2020 01:37:19 AM
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OK Hogger
Crew Chief

867 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2020 :  09:25:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Hawghead:

Going by your nickname and avatar, I'm inclined to believe you have (or had) something to do with railroading, engineer in particular. Do I have it right?

Retired railroader here.

Andre
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2020 :  10:10:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting views:

I'd guess this is from the church bell tower or whatever the structure is shown on Rob's map to the east of the church. The white building in the background is pretty prominent.


Here's an aerial view decades later.



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robchant
Fireman

Canada
1184 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2020 :  10:34:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There was a mention of a "Station Masters' House" near the station in one of the threads I read about the community, and also a mention of the Werley Tavern. I think the big white building you mention as being prominent in the background might be the tavern (maybe with rooms to rent too), so that leads me to believe that the structure east of the church was the station masters' house. Of course, just a guess on my part. The story still has lots of blanks to fill in.
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