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Michael Hohn
Fireman

USA
6107 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2020 :  10:02:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Both plans have merit. By having a team track the second has potential to serve a variety of car types.

Mike
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Bernd
Fireman

USA
3537 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2020 :  10:29:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ryan,

I found the article on the silk express scratch built car and scanned it. If you want a copy let me know by contacting me at my E-mail address in the "Members" section. Just click on my name on this post. It'll take you to the page and you can click on E-mail to send me your answer.

I'm doing it this way so we don't hi-jack Michael Hohn's thread.

Bernd

WWG1WGA
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bror hultgren
Section Hand

USA
51 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2020 :  7:31:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like the extended iota sketch. In order to see what would fit on a 18" by 6' module,I did a little photoshop butchering of your sketch. Assuming that 'staging could be done with cassettes, there is no requirement that these be at the endplates of the module or be sure to the edge. Assuming that the staging cassettes connect at the track ends marked by the X's i got this:



The graphic is in an aspect ratio of 1.5 X 6.
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2020 :  9:55:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bernd - thanks, pal. Iíll ping you in the morning.

Bror - I like Robís extended Iota track plan a lot, and like what youíve done too. I had intended for staging to be at the track on the right shown with a ď[Ē, but youíre right, a cassette could go anywhere. Though I do like the flexibility that a traverser would give. I think one or the other (or both) spurs marked with a ď?Ē could be eliminated as extraneous... probably the one to the left. The planing mill complex arranged as shown is pretty big and would likely need the extra space to fit. I like the possibilities and need to draw it to scale to see if it works. Even though this has more track than Werley, I wonder if thereís enough here to keep things interesting for me. Iíd certainly enjoy building the structures and scenic details, but are there enough stories to tell with this layout?

Over on MRH, someone suggested an additional siding be added to Werley Terminus. It would relieve some congestion, but I sorta like the simplicity of a single siding. As simple as it is, I think there might be more storytelling to be had with this layout. If the cattle pens and creamery are built to be removable, you could easily swap in different industries. Mostly because Iím not sure Iím sold on cattle and milk. Again, traverser on the right.



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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2020 :  4:16:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's a quick SketchUp model of Werley with a second siding. I used a big creamery and ice house just to see if the space could handle a little larger structure. I think I need to find a slightly smaller one. Maybe smaller cattle pens too. Or a slightly larger depot. Something seems a little out of balance. But... Everything else seems to work out as far as clearances and car spots, but this obviously would need to be worked out in real life. The arch in front projects 6" beyond the 18"x72" rectangle.... so 24" deep at the center of the layout.

Anyway... comments more than welcome.







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Michael Hohn
Fireman

USA
6107 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2020 :  5:36:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ryan,

I realize this is preliminary and for discussion, but think if you were to build this you'd want the large buildings at the rear.

Some of the railside ice houses could be pretty modest affairs.

Mike
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railman28
Fireman

USA
5545 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2020 :  6:48:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ryan, I agree with Mike. You want the tall, view blocking building in the back where they serve a duel purpose.

Bob

It's only make-believe
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jbvb
Fireman

USA
6357 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2020 :  7:08:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Cattle pens are also something you can build the business end of on the layout and continue the muddy paddock into the backdrop, if you plan one.
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2020 :  8:58:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, guys. I agree that the creamery is awkward where it is. And too big. Dimensions are from a kit, and itís meant as a large foreground industry. Much bigger than the one at Werley. Those two buildings are 18.5Ē long! Swapping the stock pens and creamery/ice house would probably work nicely.

I had some really constructive feedback on MRH (not always the case... I consider our Early Rail forum my online model railroad íhomeí...) so I thought Iíd share my comments back to them here. Bob had suggested using the turntable as a switch (running the lower siding up to the TT...) and Don had some thoughts about operating the layout.

Thanks, fellas.

Bob, I think that could definitely work... does that arrangement fit the early 1900s era? Thereís definitely a lot of area occupied by switches in this double siding track plan. And the creamery/ice house take up a lot real estate as well. The creamery in the prototype is a much more modest affair and actually doesnít even sit on the siding. Milk cans are loaded/unload at the depot. Maybe this is just too much for 6 feet with staging without getting cramped... Maybe the single siding as in the prototype is the better arrangement?

I can draw buildings and arrange them quickly in SketchUp to get a sense of things... but itís almost useless for drawing track. As I look at the layout, I think Iím most worried about how shot the switching leads are... especially on the left. With a geared engine like a Climax, we could do away with the turntable and gain 8Ē of lead... hmmm...

Don, thanks for the suggestion. Iíve really been pondering how both the prototype Werley station and this version as a terminus with additional siding would be operated. In the version as drawn, I envision using the inside lower track for arriving trains (Iíd turn the depot to face that track), spot the combo/coach at the depot, decouple and run to the turntable, turn the engine, then switch the town - building the departing train on the same track we arrived on.

Feels congested and overly complicated compared to what the prototype would have done. I like layouts that tell stories. I think without some refinement here the story that gets repeated is a train crew being frustrated solving a switching puzzle.

More thought needed. I still think Werley has charm and lots of potential. Thereís a solution here somewhere...

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jbvb
Fireman

USA
6357 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2020 :  10:19:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think the English had at least a few compact terminals where the turntable was used as a switch. But I doubt they were popular with the crews - much harder work to turn the engine even 10 degrees than to flip a ground throw.
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railman28
Fireman

USA
5545 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2020 :  10:35:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ryan, I specialize in the era before the 1890's. A turntable can be used as a straight piece of track to switch cars. Not all industries had direct rail service. I've seen several pictures were the creamery had a trackside platform and the actual building was not. If you move the two building to the rear you model only the front half burying the back into the backdrop. Pulling the Pens and the log piles forward gives you see-through scenery. By all means keep the curves in tracks, in the front of the layout.

Bob

It's only make-believe
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2020 :  10:01:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is why I like the early rail folks. Always great information.

Bob, Werley had a creamery that was near the tracks, but not on it. It was a pretty modest affair. Certainly much, much smaller than the structures I sketched which are modeled with dimensions from the Branchline laser kits. Looks as though milk came and went from the depot platform. I may significantly reduce the size of the creamery and ice house, keep the ice house trackside, and pull the creamery back from the rails as it was in the prototype. See how that looks. Then try a version where the industry is swapped with the cattle pens.

Youíre right, of course. The turntable could be used as part of the switching lead. Iíll need to measure and see (guess, since SketchUp is lousy for modeling track...) how many cars plus locomotive can clear the points of the last switch to the left. Iím using the length of a Blackstone 2-8-0 for an engine since thatís as large as Iíd go for power. (When I build that Climax or Dunkirk, length will be significant reduced.) Assuming 30í cars as well. And Iíll definitely keep the sweepy curves to the track. I think thatís part of the charm.

jbvb - I agree. Even if prototypical, using the TT as a switch probably wasnít popular. Iíd think that unless a large change of direction was needed (engine house track at 45*...) this would probably be avoided. In my geographical area at least, turntables actually are quite rare on narrow gauge lines, most preferring a wye. And with geared locomotives, there isnít a significant need to turn the engine.

Fun stuff.
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robchant
Fireman

Canada
1184 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2020 :  3:26:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Ryan,

IMHO, adding the extra siding is almost a necessity for the layout to work well as an end of line station. However, adding more industries to what in my view should be just used as a round around track kind of defeats the purpose.

Take care,
Rob.
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RyanAK
Engine Wiper

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2020 :  5:04:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rob! I agree itís most likely a necessity to have the additional siding to run around Werley as a terminus... but I have been thinking of how it would work without it. With the double track my intent was to keep the inside track clear for arriving trains, running around and building outbound trains with the industry on the outside. But the closer I look, I donít think that would work. I think it would be better to have the creamery off-line and load at the depot as in the prototype, and move a much smaller icehouse inside the eye next to the depot. All car spots on the inside and top track, outside track on the bottom completely clear to run around. Certainly more options here to explore. I see this as a little outpost town at the end of a new narrow gauge line. The railroad just arrived and things are starting to take off for the little hamlet. What other small industries could this little town have if Iím not keen on cow products? Hmmm...

Iím gonna see what I can do with the extended Iota and one or two other prototype-base track plans I have in mind. And I need to see what I can find on track arrangements at a tannery... or at least how the process worked so I can arrange car spots for a one-industry layout. Then thereís all the info I found on wood chemical plants... that would be a pretty neat one-industry to model as well.

Fun stuff!
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robchant
Fireman

Canada
1184 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2020 :  5:14:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Ryan,

Are you open to me adding track plan suggestions / 3D renderings to the thread based on your ideas? I don't want to step on your toes if you want a one man show ... LOL.

Take care,
Rob.
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