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 The Coos Bay and Willamette Valley Part two
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brian budeit
New Hire

USA
34 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2019 :  6:24:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry my attachment doesn't seem to upload, Ill see what I can do.

brian
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railman28
Fireman

USA
5535 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2019 :  5:20:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think I've found a better match for Baldwin frame Wine. Here's the front nearest to the camera in Vallejo's Calvery Red;

And for convenience, Glenbrook's cylinder again;


comments?

Bob

It's only make-believe
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Michael Hohn
Fireman

USA
6094 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2019 :  6:51:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bob,

Itís not an exact match but I donít think thatís whatís important. Itís a very credible and good-looking red that to me fits the description of wine red.

Mike
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railman28
Fireman

USA
5535 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2019 :  3:35:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike, there is a lot of wisdom in your words. Especially since restores can't decided on the correct shade. But I thought I would try and add a little brown to the color. When I was building my machine shop I had gotten a bottle of Shadows Flesh from Valleho's "Panzer Aces" line for weathering the roof. It was a lot redder than I expected from the color chart. In Fact a very good wine color. Here it is on the frame and a Bachmann sand dome;


Brian;
Thank you for the idea. I tried a couple of variations. AI over the firebox and black paint & future wash over the tapered section and the next section. the first section is untreated metalizer;



I really like the future and black paint section.

Bob

It's only make-believe

Edited by - railman28 on 12/13/2019 3:38:45 PM
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railman28
Fireman

USA
5535 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2019 :  1:52:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm rather pleased with the Wash of black paint and Future over Vallejo Gunmetal. Here's the boiler with all the Jacket panels treated with the wash. These test were brush painted the air brush will apply the paint and washes more evenly. Also is a shot of a Bachmann I paint to see if I was able to duplicate the results. I didn't prime the Bachmann boiler and you can see the black plastic in some places but I'm pleased with the results.


I broke the trigger of my single action air brush and replaced it with a double action model as they are so highly recommended. So I started playing with in on cardboard to get use to it. That's going to take a while.

Bob

It's only make-believe
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hon3_rr
Fireman

USA
7234 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2019 :  4:52:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob, I suspect that you can obtain an even closer color match by mixing a couple of Vallejo paints. IF you were to mix the Calvery Red with a green, you should get closer. It would be just a very, very small amount of green added to the red or you'll get mud.

I could not find a "Calvary Red", but I can find a "Calvary Brown" #70-982, which I'm assuming you are looking at. I suspect that a yellow-green is the complement, so something like the Model Color Flat Green #70-968 or the Model Color Luftwaffe Cam. Green #70-823 may shade the Calvary Brown towards a better color match. Again, I can't stress enough it would be just a small amount of the green to change the color more towards the shade you may desire.

I'm worried that the Calvary Brown is going to be too strong in the red value once a large section of the boiler is painted, esp. under florescent lights. Thus my suggestion(s) for your review.

-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 12/15/2019 4:59:21 PM
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railman28
Fireman

USA
5535 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2019 :  11:18:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kris, Thank you so much, I really appreciate your input. I'll try it. I don't have ether of those colors in Vallejo but I do have similar pigments in craft paints that I can use to mix a test. And Yes it is Calvary BROWN.

Thanks Again
Bob

It's only make-believe
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railman28
Fireman

USA
5535 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2019 :  2:09:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So I Tried A little Green and you can see the difference here. with the right half the cylinder support painted with the new mixture and the left with straight Calvary Brown. You can also see what happens when you drop a FUD print!


Bob

It's only make-believe
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Michael Hohn
Fireman

USA
6094 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2019 :  3:19:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Looks like an improvement but itís hard to tell from the small area in the photo.
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railman28
Fireman

USA
5535 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2019 :  5:13:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ops, my bad! I forgot to add a little black because the dark green was not as dark as the recommended green. Too much black I think;




Bob

It's only make-believe
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Michael Hohn
Fireman

USA
6094 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2019 :  6:10:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Perhaps too dark but in the right direction.

The photo of prototype paint looks similar to Scalecoat PRR Caboose Red or PRR Freight Car Red.

Mike

Edited by - Michael Hohn on 12/17/2019 6:16:05 PM
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hon3_rr
Fireman

USA
7234 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2019 :  12:39:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob,
You are experiencing some issues with the color values for multiple reasons, I suspect.
1) I concur that yes, way too much black. Actually, you probably really don't want the black, but just a very,very wee bit of Payne's grey or possibly Jane's grey. The straight black is just going to cloud the mix as well as fight some of the colors in the Calvary Brown. (remember, the Calvary Brown is actually a mix of different colored pigments.) The use of Jane's grey is used by artist to 'shade' or darken a color much more effectively and with more control than using black. Payne's Grey, which has a blue component, will probably work with the orange values of the Calvary Brown a bit better than the black. Again, a darker toned green would probably help get you around some of this. The black is also not going to adjust the red light reflection back to the viewer's eye when viewed under some lighting conditions.
2) Vallejo paints have a extra-fine pigment grind, which gives the paints the exceptional coverage and ability to color fine detail without obscuring the detail with a film of paint. In addition to the high quality pigments used, the polymer binder used is of a high quality and the paints have no 'fillers', but are pretty much just raw pigments. Your craft paints however, are just the opposite. The large pigment grinds, cheaper or synthetic pigments, minimal amount of binder and lots of fillers do not prevent the paints from mixing, but when mixed they don't really play well together. Because of the craft paint properties, I would expect some difficulties in mixing, especially in controlling the the shading values.
3) Taking a technique from the military & figure modelers, to 'darken' the overall values you would want a 'filter'. http://www.scalemodelguide.com/painting-weathering/weathering/paint-washes/ I would suggest a very highly thinned black, or possibly a burnt umber, enamel paint applied over the dry acrylic Calvary Brown.

Sorry, but I did not intend my earlier suggestion(s) to become such a technical discussion. but I also wanted you to be able to understand your situation in detail.

I would probably just used the volume of craft paint (that you've selected) found on a toothpick after being dipped into craft paint to help control the volume of paint being mixed. It may take a couple of toothpick dips to obtain the necessary amount of craft pigment, but will provide you with better control than by trying to use a drop measuring method.

Or hey... there is nothing wrong with the Calvary Brown which you started with! I was just trying to help with the 'fine-tuning' of the color.

-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 12/18/2019 12:46:50 PM
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railman28
Fireman

USA
5535 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2019 :  4:15:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Kris, I know enough to know I don't know much. That's certainly true of color mixing. I really enjoy reading your technical explanation and it certainly explains a lot of what I've been seeing. For sure Vallejo is superior and more durable paint. I sent out an order for the colors you recommended last night. And using Payne's Grey instead of black for shading makes a lot of sense. I wish I would of thought of that. Mike agrees with you that Calvary Brown is Good enough too. If possible I would like to get closer. When Finished I'm going to have four engine in this color. Like the mechanics of the model I want the colors to be as close as possible. Then again, of the four restore Baldwins I have observed closely and photographed none of them have the same Baldwin Wine ether.

Bob

It's only make-believe
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brian budeit
New Hire

USA
34 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2019 :  4:26:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just to throw in my two cents, with locomotive models, they will at some point usually need a bit of touching up: running board edges, cylinder corners, cab roof corners, etc. For that reason, I would settle for a close color, or a simple mix that can be duplicated, before you paint the engine with a witches brew of many different shades. As you have observed, four engines painted wine or lake are all still different. Final weathering will change whatever you mix anyway.

brian b
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railman28
Fireman

USA
5535 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2019 :  5:22:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Brian, That's an excellent point. It needs to be considered. The pilot and cylinders are painted this color and they often get chipped.

Bob

It's only make-believe
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