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David Clark
Fireman

Canada
1120 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2017 :  3:30:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ed, Thanks for the compliment! I've read that anyone can learn from their own mistakes but it takes a wise man to learn from others' mistakes. I don't profess to be that man but it sounds good and I keep trying to get my son to listen to it (usually to no avail).
Cheers,
Dave
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David Clark
Fireman

Canada
1120 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2017 :  3:53:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hon3_rr

Dave, your modeling efforts are looking really good and I'm excited to see the structure and layout scene components come together. It appears that the area is going to be a nice piece of eye-candy once completed. You have a wonderful start on a foreground structure being supported by an attractive backdrop.

Kris, Thanks for the compliment!

Your structures are being weathered to address some of the more subtle effects of the environment. I strongly commend your attention to the details. But the presentation of a detailed rendition of weathering effects makes the viewer eye look for additional details. Because of this natural interest/instinct, the fine details of the structure construction also need to be presented to further enhance the viewing experience. This is probably why you feel that the structures are not responding as expected when viewing them. I suspect that you are on the correct track with the ideas of additional structure details like N-B-W's, hinges, etc. So I encourage you to add those items as you can. Some of these fine details may be difficult to incorporate, and I for sure don't feel that lack of some of the details will detract from the finished product, especially as you are going to place the mine at the back of the layout.

I know that you are still in the construction and coloring phase of your roof, but please remember to color the underside of the eve.

I've rarely used a glue stick to attach rolled roofing. I have found that often the use of just a acrylic paint will hold the tissue material in place for most applications. The addition of a small amount of white glue or acrylic matte medium to the paint will increase the long term adhesion, but comes with the price of a possible dry coating making the use of weathering powders and pastels a bit more difficult and requires a spray fixative. ...

As for the idea to use soft pastels or weathering powders to darken the top edge of the walls under the roof overhang, I'm not sure that it is necessary. If you are going to incorporate fascia or barge boards, you may want to take advantage of the lighter coloring and place a slightly darker fascia board over the weathered wall, allowing the weathering to weep from behind the fascia board.

If you are interested, I can suggest a couple of possible techniques which you may want to consider if you still want/need to apply additional coloring to the walls directly below the eves.

Kris, Thank you for the input. I noticed the underside of the roof in the picture and I will be colouring it. Your comment on the level of detail adding to the requirement of more detail is a valid one. At some point one needs to know when to stop. The structure will be at the back of the layout (albeit only 24" away). I should probably concentrate my detail towards the forefront. I realized too late that I sided the back of the hoist house for no reason as it will be invisible to the viewer. Again, the kit didn't have wood for the roof trusses or fascia so I wasn't going to add any but it galls me to see the edge of the roof "unsupported".
I think I should take my cues from my daughter. She loved the mine structures and I told her about the open-roofed tipple and how it should have something to keep the snow out.
Her: "will you have snow on the layout?"
Me: "No, it's summer but seasons change."
Her: "are you going to add snow later?"
Me: "Uh, no."
Her: "Then why do you need a roof?"
I have to do more research on using chalks/powders. I thought I could move them around more but once they got wet, they stayed put. Any tips would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Dave
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hon3_rr
Fireman

USA
7124 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2017 :  5:22:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave, your daughter is a smart girl. Simplicity is often a key in creating great models. Another key is learning to cover up mistakes, ie: taking advantage of the lighter than desired wall coloring under the eves.

An outstanding contributor to the forum was Elliott. One of his constant reminders was that “less is more“. Elliott often quoted the 'two foot' principal to help determine whether the details should be installed. As most viewing is done about 2 feet between the viewing eye and the model, o e really only needs to focus on details which can be viewed at a two foot distance or greater. Be aware however that this does not automatically exclude individual details which may not be easily viewed at a two foot distance.
Example: Individual nail holes in a structure wall when lightly stained are difficult, if not impossible, to see individually. However, the nail holes May contribute strongly to the character/look of the wall when viewed as an aggregate.

-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 07/11/2017 6:02:25 PM
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David Clark
Fireman

Canada
1120 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2017 :  5:40:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kris, I know what you mean about the 2' rule. I used to paint, and teach how to paint, tabletop wargaming figures. Everyone wanted to paint eyes but you can't see a human's eyeballs at a distance equivalent to what you are viewing the table top from. Thanks for reminding me of that; I will keep that as a rule of thumb. The nail hole thing seems to cause no end of discussion, doesn't it?
Cheers,
Dave
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Terrell
Fireman

1677 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2017 :  6:23:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If I may, regarding the 2 foot rule, which I do agree with to some extent, in today's world, as we are doing right here on the forum, most of our work is posted and seen on forums, blogs and other social media. Much more than is seen in person. Via photography, the camera is like putting the work under a microscope (and if you're like me sometimes you wish it wasn't) so small details do not go unnoticed. So, I guess, it really depends on what you want your work to be. How much you want to put into it. But I believe any extra effort is not wasted. Maybe hidden from many, but not wasted. On the other hand if it's not there, it's not missed, to most.

My thoughts. For what they are worth.
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David Clark
Fireman

Canada
1120 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2017 :  7:57:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Terrell, very true. I expect that my photos won't be as exciting to view from one's desktop or laptop but I think I need to keep stuff in perspective. I am already experiencing "detail creep" - I want to add more when the suggestion of more would be enough. "great from far but far from great" as they say (whoever "they" are).
Thanks for your comments.
Cheers,
Dave
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ed k
Fireman

USA
1091 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2017 :  8:39:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave,
I believe your son hears you loud and clear.
He will not admit it, but you will see it in his actions.
Nail holes in HO, what a great debate.
Each modeler must go with what brings him the most joy. Otherwise why bother.
ed
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quartergauger48
Fireman

USA
5669 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2017 :  10:25:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If I may, I would suggest you continue with as many and all the details that you feel is necessary. As mentioned by Fred, in time you may want to take quality photographs for posting on forums. All those details will be seen and not wasted, as the camera will capture everyone of them. Your background looks very good. I think the faded mountains are a nice touch. It gives a bit of depth of field and a natural look. Often the background mountains are way too dark with too much color and stick out in a unrealistic
way spoiling the effect. As stated, less is always more in many situations'..
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David Clark
Fireman

Canada
1120 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2017 :  11:55:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ted, thanks for the encouragement. I know the camera will capture every detail (and imperfection) - maybe I will use a diffuser like movie cameras do for aging actors!
Cheers,
Dave
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David Clark
Fireman

Canada
1120 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2017 :  2:35:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I need to place an order for wood to make up what was missing in my kit and to start on the engine house. I researched a few threads on the forums and while there's a lot of information on staining and weathering I couldn't find too much on lumber size. Maybe that's because most use kits? What I could find was using 8x8 timbers for framing with 2x4s as additional bracing and 2x12 for the siding. Is this typical? I would have thought 1x8 siding with 10x10 posts, but what do I know, having never seen one.
Cheers,
Dave
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quartergauger48
Fireman

USA
5669 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2017 :  8:56:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
David, there are many that build with prototypical wood sizes exclusively. I would take a look at North East Scale lumber. they have a chart, and all the scales broken down by size.
A little pricey but, good stuff. As an alternative though, Revel model company makes bags of assorted balsa and basswood strips and sheets. Very reasonable. Again if you are not building exact prototype structures. You don't need to be exact in the sizes of the wood used'..Of course contest models is a different story'...
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David Clark
Fireman

Canada
1120 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2017 :  12:14:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ted, I get that. I'm not worried about the exact size or converting dimensional lumber to fractional sizes. I'm trying to figure what "makes sense" - 8x8 (ish) or 10x10 (ish) posts and beams? And siding, should it be 8" wide, 10, 12? It seems like 12" wide planks would be huge but maybe because nowadays finding lumber that wide is rare. It's not a big deal, I guess, I'm not following a prototype but I would like it to be "realistic".
Thanks for looking.
Cheers,
Dave
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David Clark
Fireman

Canada
1120 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2017 :  12:27:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I decided to add some NBWs that I had kicking around. I sprayed them "camo brown" while spraying my track. I made a small hole with a pin vise to seat the stem of the NBW. I only applied them to the front of the tipple supports and to the two visible sides of the head frame.
I will still need to add some rust streaking from the NBWs and some more weathering on the wood. I tried a bit of mossy green at the bottom of the head frame. This is very prevalent here in the quasi-rain forest we live in.

Cheers,
Dave





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hon3_rr
Fireman

USA
7124 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2017 :  04:51:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave, I use Kappler lumber. It does often take a few weeks to get your order, but I think that you will be pleased with the wood. The lumber is cut to guarantee a tolerance of +/- 0.003" on the width and thickness of all lumber and +/- 0.010" on the lenghts.

http://www.kapplerusa.com/y2k/p-o-scale.htm

Kappler also produces a Stripwood modelers pack, (Value Pack) which has lumber for all of the common sizes used in construction. The wood is packaged in individual bags which are labeled with the wood size. http://kapplerusa.com/y2k/p-value.htm#o (Scroll to top page to view menu in left side frame.)

Disclaimer: I'm not associated to KapplerUSA, but just a happy customer.

-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 07/13/2017 05:00:57 AM
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David Clark
Fireman

Canada
1120 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2017 :  1:07:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kris,
Thanks for the info. I'm not too worried about tolerances in my wood. I'm just trying to figure what size of wood to use. The mine tipple I just built came with 8x8s for the structure. I guess if it is OK for that it will be OK for the wall and roof timbers on an engine house.
Cheers,
Dave
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