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bitlerisvj
Fireman

USA
1163 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2012 :  12:42:29 PM  Show Profile  Send bitlerisvj an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave,
I am so glad you are doing this build. I have always loved Ambroid kits. My first one was the B&O cushion coil car, circa 1965/1966. I got it brand new around 1968 and built it in about a month. It was not my first craftsman kit, I had already built a Quality Craft 3 deck auto carrier, which also was a lot of fun. Since then, I acquired a lot of Ambroid/Northeaster/Quality Craft kits as well as LaBelle and a few others. I do agree that Ambroid seems to be the best. I think their grabs are a bit clunky, but so far I have been using them anyway. I have also picked up a few "used" Ambroid kits that were built and needed repair. I recently picked up a Golden Loaf Ambroid Airslide Hopper that has been in a really bad wreck. We will see if I can rehab it. It was painted and decaled, so I am hoping to rebuild the broken areas and match the paint without messing up the decals. YIKES! I purchased a Matheisen Dry Ice car on eBay that was pretty much built. When I received it, most of the construction of the body and frame was ok, but the details on the sides were not done well at all. The z braces and angles needed to be removed and redone. This was one time I was happy that the builder used Ambroid cement. I just used Acetone to re-kit these parts and also used Acetone to remove the excess Ambroid he had pretty much all over the car. I used Titebond yellow glue to add the pieces I needed to re-do. I pretty much use that for all wood kit construction. It was not too bad to get it back to where it could be worked and now after a re-hab and paint, I am quite proud to have it on my layout. I do have the Reefer you are building and if i get a chance to go along, I will, but we'll see how my schedule goes. In any case, I will follow along and if there are any tips I can give you I will do so.
Regards, Vic Bitleris
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CWRailman
Engine Wiper

USA
230 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2012 :  2:03:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit CWRailman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Dave,
I have a note in my kit that tells me the taper as shown on the kit instructing sheet isometric is wrong. First off it shows a long taper starting about mid car and going up. That was definitely wrong. Secondly it shows a taper on both ends when the ends were actually rounded with a very slight taper as shown in Geisselís drawing. Somewhere, and I cannot find it now I have a photo of the actual car and the photo that accompanies the 1958 construction article is what I have listed as correct which is also in agreement with the drawing that Geissel did.
When Westerfield did this reefer he did not put a taper on the components.
https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=95&products_id=645
By the time Ambroid issued their kit H-16 for the PRR X-23 box car, which I believe had a frame structure similar to this reefer car, they were no longer showing the taper on the bracing components. But then again they no longer showed that isometric view either.
Denny
Janitor in Training
CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
WEB site: CWRailman.com
Facebook: CWRailman
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Thorn Creek and Western
Fireman

USA
2455 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2012 :  11:14:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thorn Creek and Western's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bitlerisvj

Hi Dave,
I am so glad you are doing this build. I have always loved Ambroid kits. My first one was the B&O cushion coil car, circa 1965/1966. I got it brand new around 1968 and built it in about a month. It was not my first craftsman kit, I had already built a Quality Craft 3 deck auto carrier, which also was a lot of fun. Since then, I acquired a lot of Ambroid/Northeaster/Quality Craft kits as well as LaBelle and a few others. I do agree that Ambroid seems to be the best. I think their grabs are a bit clunky, but so far I have been using them anyway. I have also picked up a few "used" Ambroid kits that were built and needed repair. I recently picked up a Golden Loaf Ambroid Airslide Hopper that has been in a really bad wreck. We will see if I can rehab it. It was painted and decaled, so I am hoping to rebuild the broken areas and match the paint without messing up the decals. YIKES! I purchased a Matheisen Dry Ice car on eBay that was pretty much built. When I received it, most of the construction of the body and frame was ok, but the details on the sides were not done well at all. The z braces and angles needed to be removed and redone. This was one time I was happy that the builder used Ambroid cement. I just used Acetone to re-kit these parts and also used Acetone to remove the excess Ambroid he had pretty much all over the car. I used Titebond yellow glue to add the pieces I needed to re-do. I pretty much use that for all wood kit construction. It was not too bad to get it back to where it could be worked and now after a re-hab and paint, I am quite proud to have it on my layout. I do have the Reefer you are building and if i get a chance to go along, I will, but we'll see how my schedule goes. In any case, I will follow along and if there are any tips I can give you I will do so.
Regards, Vic Bitleris


Vic, I just checked my unbuilt Mathieson Dry Ice car kit. Except for the lettering, it and the instruction sheet are identical to the 1912 reefer. It would be just great if you decide to build along.
-Dave

-Dave
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Thorn Creek and Western
Fireman

USA
2455 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2012 :  11:58:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thorn Creek and Western's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CWRailman

Dave,
I have a note in my kit that tells me the taper as shown on the kit instructing sheet isometric is wrong. First off it shows a long taper starting about mid car and going up. That was definitely wrong. Secondly it shows a taper on both ends when the ends were actually rounded with a very slight taper as shown in Geisselís drawing. Somewhere, and I cannot find it now I have a photo of the actual car and the photo that accompanies the 1958 construction article is what I have listed as correct which is also in agreement with the drawing that Geissel did...


Denny, It would be a big help if you posted that prototype photo.
I have the '58 article in front of me and there is no proto photo-- just four model photos and Geissel's plan.
-Dave

-Dave

Edited by - Thorn Creek and Western on 12/18/2012 11:59:05 PM
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Thorn Creek and Western
Fireman

USA
2455 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2012 :  12:26:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit Thorn Creek and Western's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Continuing the reefer build...

I fabricated the cross bearers from the provided stripwood and drilled them and the bolsters--



Here is the underframe plan--



After cementing the center sill and the bolsters to the underframe I decided it would be easier to make little sub-assemblies of the cross bearers--


-Dave

-Dave
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CWRailman
Engine Wiper

USA
230 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2012 :  12:38:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit CWRailman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Creek and Western

quote:
Originally posted by CWRailman

Dave,
I have a note in my kit that tells me the taper as shown on the kit instructing sheet isometric is wrong. First off it shows a long taper starting about mid car and going up. That was definitely wrong. Secondly it shows a taper on both ends when the ends were actually rounded with a very slight taper as shown in Geisselís drawing. Somewhere, and I cannot find it now I have a photo of the actual car and the photo that accompanies the 1958 construction article is what I have listed as correct which is also in agreement with the drawing that Geissel did...


Denny, It would be a big help if you posted that prototype photo.
I have the '58 article in front of me and there is no proto photo-- just four model photos and Geissel's plan.
-Dave


Dave,
I could not find that photo of the prototype before I posted my last comment that is why I attached the link to the Westerfield model of the same car which looks very much like the photoís of the model that appeared in MR. Iíll check my back up drive on my desktop tomorrow and see if it is there. Anyway, I see you have posted additional work so I need to check out your progress.

If anyone wants to build along with you I have a couple of the same kit I am willing to part with.
Denny
Janitor in Training
CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
WEB site: CWRailman.com
Facebook: CWRailman
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bitlerisvj
Fireman

USA
1163 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2012 :  09:27:17 AM  Show Profile  Send bitlerisvj an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Yes, they really are pretty much identical except for the signs, paint and lettering. I still have one of each unbuilt. If I can, I will choose the Reefer, since I already have one Dry Ice car done.
Regards, Vic B.
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Creek and Western

quote:
Originally posted by bitlerisvj

Hi Dave,
I am so glad you are doing this build. I have always loved Ambroid kits. My first one was the B&O cushion coil car, circa 1965/1966. I got it brand new around 1968 and built it in about a month. It was not my first craftsman kit, I had already built a Quality Craft 3 deck auto carrier, which also was a lot of fun. Since then, I acquired a lot of Ambroid/Northeaster/Quality Craft kits as well as LaBelle and a few others. I do agree that Ambroid seems to be the best. I think their grabs are a bit clunky, but so far I have been using them anyway. I have also picked up a few "used" Ambroid kits that were built and needed repair. I recently picked up a Golden Loaf Ambroid Airslide Hopper that has been in a really bad wreck. We will see if I can rehab it. It was painted and decaled, so I am hoping to rebuild the broken areas and match the paint without messing up the decals. YIKES! I purchased a Matheisen Dry Ice car on eBay that was pretty much built. When I received it, most of the construction of the body and frame was ok, but the details on the sides were not done well at all. The z braces and angles needed to be removed and redone. This was one time I was happy that the builder used Ambroid cement. I just used Acetone to re-kit these parts and also used Acetone to remove the excess Ambroid he had pretty much all over the car. I used Titebond yellow glue to add the pieces I needed to re-do. I pretty much use that for all wood kit construction. It was not too bad to get it back to where it could be worked and now after a re-hab and paint, I am quite proud to have it on my layout. I do have the Reefer you are building and if i get a chance to go along, I will, but we'll see how my schedule goes. In any case, I will follow along and if there are any tips I can give you I will do so.
Regards, Vic Bitleris


Vic, I just checked my unbuilt Mathieson Dry Ice car kit. Except for the lettering, it and the instruction sheet are identical to the 1912 reefer. It would be just great if you decide to build along.
-Dave

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bitlerisvj
Fireman

USA
1163 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2012 :  09:32:16 AM  Show Profile  Send bitlerisvj an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave,
It looks like you are doing a very nice job. Those cross bearers lay the foundation of the floor and brake piping detail, so it pays to make sure they are perfect and yours look just right.
Regards, Vic B.
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Creek and Western

Continuing the reefer build...

I fabricated the cross bearers from the provided stripwood and drilled them and the bolsters--

After cementing the center sill and the bolsters to the underframe I decided it would be easier to make little sub-assemblies of the cross bearers--

-Dave

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ocalicreek
New Hire

19 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2012 :  3:27:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If I weren't in the midst of building Campbell's Red Mountain Mine, I'd jump right in and join this build. If I get the mine finished by the end of the year and this thread is still going strong I may just begin the reefer.

What appeals to me most about that car is the "American Railway Express" lettering which puts the car smack dab in my era of pre-March 1929, when the ARE became the more familiar REA. Good luck finding ANYONE who makes ARE lettering, signs, etc.

I also read somewhere that this car would have used crown trucks, and I have tracked them down to the Bowser site. Not having any on hand, nor ready to make an order from Bowser, I postponed this kit and started the mine instead, sortof a tribute to Leo Campbell.

I look forward to following this thread.

Galen
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Thorn Creek and Western
Fireman

USA
2455 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2012 :  5:40:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thorn Creek and Western's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ocalicreek

If I weren't in the midst of building Campbell's Red Mountain Mine, I'd jump right in and join this build. If I get the mine finished by the end of the year and this thread is still going strong I may just begin the reefer.

What appeals to me most about that car is the "American Railway Express" lettering which puts the car smack dab in my era of pre-March 1929, when the ARE became the more familiar REA. Good luck finding ANYONE who makes ARE lettering, signs, etc.

I also read somewhere that this car would have used crown trucks, and I have tracked them down to the Bowser site. Not having any on hand, nor ready to make an order from Bowser, I postponed this kit and started the mine instead, sortof a tribute to Leo Campbell.

I look forward to following this thread.

Galen

Galen, I was wondering what I would do if I couldn't resurrect the 53 year-old decals in my kit. But I've learned that Westerfield makes a decal set (D11601 R7 REEFER PRR) for this exact car. And you'll be pleased to hear that it includes the 'American Railway Express' lettering.

Also, the earliest cars in this series had arch bar trucks; Crown trucks were used in 1915.
-Dave


-Dave
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bitlerisvj
Fireman

USA
1163 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2012 :  09:02:01 AM  Show Profile  Send bitlerisvj an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Welcome aboard Galen, Glad to see you here, since I am familiar with your work on the Yardbirdtrains Yahoo group, I expectt to see some cool stuff from you. You will have a lot of fun here at Railroad-Line.
Sheesh, I was planning on using Kadee arch bar trucks, but now you got me wondering and I suppose I need to figure out what Crown trucks are. Someone else mentioned they also used arch bar trucks, so maybe I am ok.
Hey, maybe you will do a build thread on the Red Mountain Mine. (hint hint hint)
Regards, Vic Bitleris
quote:
Originally posted by ocalicreek

If I weren't in the midst of building Campbell's Red Mountain Mine, I'd jump right in and join this build. If I get the mine finished by the end of the year and this thread is still going strong I may just begin the reefer.

What appeals to me most about that car is the "American Railway Express" lettering which puts the car smack dab in my era of pre-March 1929, when the ARE became the more familiar REA. Good luck finding ANYONE who makes ARE lettering, signs, etc.

I also read somewhere that this car would have used crown trucks, and I have tracked them down to the Bowser site. Not having any on hand, nor ready to make an order from Bowser, I postponed this kit and started the mine instead, sortof a tribute to Leo Campbell.

I look forward to following this thread.

Galen

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CVSNE
Engine Wiper

487 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2012 :  09:54:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit CVSNE's Homepage  Send CVSNE a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Creek and Western

quote:
Originally posted by CWRailman

Dave,
I have a note in my kit that tells me the taper as shown on the kit instructing sheet isometric is wrong. First off it shows a long taper starting about mid car and going up. That was definitely wrong. Secondly it shows a taper on both ends when the ends were actually rounded with a very slight taper as shown in Geisselís drawing. Somewhere, and I cannot find it now I have a photo of the actual car and the photo that accompanies the 1958 construction article is what I have listed as correct which is also in agreement with the drawing that Geissel did...


Denny, It would be a big help if you posted that prototype photo.
I have the '58 article in front of me and there is no proto photo-- just four model photos and Geissel's plan.
-Dave



Dave,
Do a google image search for "PRR R7 refrigerator" and you'll find lots of pics. Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Volume 15 has an extensive article, with lots of plans and photos on these cars (and the virtually identical X23 boxcars).
I've built both the boxcar and reefer variants from Westerfield kits, but I had the Ambroid kit years ago -
Best of luck, I'll be following along!
Marty

Marty McGuirk
Manassas, VA
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Thorn Creek and Western
Fireman

USA
2455 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2012 :  12:49:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thorn Creek and Western's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bitlerisvj


...Sheesh, I was planning on using Kadee arch bar trucks, but now you got me wondering and I suppose I need to figure out what Crown trucks are...


Vic, I wasn't sure either, but I found this site which has plan drawings of several types of Crown trucks.
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?sel=ftk
-Dave

-Dave
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ocalicreek
New Hire

19 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2012 :  5:01:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Creek and Western

quote:
Originally posted by ocalicreek

If I weren't in the midst of building Campbell's Red Mountain Mine, I'd jump right in and join this build. If I get the mine finished by the end of the year and this thread is still going strong I may just begin the reefer.

What appeals to me most about that car is the "American Railway Express" lettering which puts the car smack dab in my era of pre-March 1929, when the ARE became the more familiar REA. Good luck finding ANYONE who makes ARE lettering, signs, etc.

I also read somewhere that this car would have used crown trucks, and I have tracked them down to the Bowser site. Not having any on hand, nor ready to make an order from Bowser, I postponed this kit and started the mine instead, sortof a tribute to Leo Campbell.

I look forward to following this thread.

Galen

Galen, I was wondering what I would do if I couldn't resurrect the 53 year-old decals in my kit. But I've learned that Westerfield makes a decal set (D11601 R7 REEFER PRR) for this exact car. And you'll be pleased to hear that it includes the 'American Railway Express' lettering.

Also, the earliest cars in this series had arch bar trucks; Crown trucks were used in 1915.
-Dave





Good to know about the decals!

I have played around with reducing images of actual American Railway Express signboards that would've been on freight stations, but haven't made much progress. It would sure be nice to see a set of decals/dry transfers for the period between USRA and REA, late teens and pre-depression twenties.

Anyway, question - how's that sanding sealer working out? How much did you use and do you plan to really sand it down heavily before painting?

Galen
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Thorn Creek and Western
Fireman

USA
2455 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2012 :  9:08:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thorn Creek and Western's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CVSNE


Dave,
Do a google image search for "PRR R7 refrigerator" and you'll find lots of pics. Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Volume 15 has an extensive article, with lots of plans and photos on these cars (and the virtually identical X23 boxcars).
I've built both the boxcar and reefer variants from Westerfield kits, but I had the Ambroid kit years ago -Best of luck, I'll be following along!
Marty



Thanks for the tips, Marty-- I think I now have a fairly good understanding of the bracing on those R7 and X23 cars.

-Dave
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