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closetguy
Fireman
USA
1321 Posts |
 Posted - 05/10/2012 : 8:27:32 PM
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Hi All
I'm building a large layout for a client. I'm used to open girder and raised roadbed on risers. This just a large 12 x 11 flat layout with 1x4 grid work and 1/2" plywood screwed down on top of the grid work. Since its not possible to access the underside at all the switches, how do you usually mount tortoise machines when they are going in blind. I have already drilled a 5/16 hole through the cork and plywood dead center under the center of the throw bar.
Advice please?
Thank you
Mike M |
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desertdrover
Engineer
USA
11331 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2012 : 10:40:48 PM
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Hi Mike, Is there a reason the grid work where the Tortoise lines up can't be cut out, or removed? Can an off-set Tortoise be used? I'm not quite sure what you are up against here? Before I can give a good answer.
The Tortoise machines are quite versatile, they can be top mounted, side mounted, and at times set into the layout from the top of the benchwork. |
 Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast |
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closetguy
Fireman
USA
1321 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 10:32:15 AM
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good morning Louis
Yes, I can make a cut out at every switch to gain access under the layout to set the tortoise machines and adjust them . With 20 switches I was hoping not to do that. Its not an open grid work with track on risers. Its just 5 sheets of flat 1/2" plywood with cork roadbed. I'll attach a picture..
Mike M |
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closetguy
Fireman
USA
1321 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 10:42:02 AM
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I was hoping someone may have come up with using a template, a good way of setting the tortoise machines blindly. If not, I guess holes will be cut at every switch and than plugged.
The customer did not want an open grid with risers. The material and labor costs were too much. He opted for a flat board system. I did insist on the grid bench work.
This is all made from 4/4 poplar. Assembled with 2" self drilling screws. Less expensive than pine and since it is technically a hardwood, its is much stronger. |
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Tabooma County Rwy
Fireman
USA
4201 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 10:51:28 AM
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Mike,
Are you using cork roadbed? If so, here's what I've done with great success (sorry, no photos, this was on my last layout, just starting my new layout and haven't got to the turnout stage yet).
Get some 3/16ths Gatorboard (Micro Mark sells it). Not foamcore, but actual Gatorboard (sometimes called Gatorfoam). This stuff has a very thin veneer on both sides over a foam center. Very rigid - won't warp. I pre wired and mounted my turnouts on the Gatorboard (cut in the shape of a turnout, or you can use less and just put it under the points end, say about a 4" long piece). A 3/8ths or so hole was cut in to the Gatorboard for the piano wire from the Tortoise machine. I used latex caulk to adhere the turnout to the Gatorboard.
Next, figure out where this in going to be on your plywood deck, and hold the Tortoise/turnout assembly over the plywood so you can draw (felt tip pen) the shape of the Tortoise on the plywood. This is the hole that you need to cut out of the plywood; allow about an extra 1/8 inch all around, and a little more on the linkage (piano wire) side). Then you simply drop the Tortoise/turnout assembly in place and connect the rail joiners on the three "ends" of the turnout to your track. I used commercially available edge connectors, pre wired, to wire up the Tortoise, so no crawling around under the layout was necessary.
BTW, this method works just as well for those people that use a pink or blue foam base for their layout.
Hope that made sense, ask questions if it didn't.
Al Carter |
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Tommatthews
Fireman
7351 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 11:26:43 AM
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Mike,
I had your problem. I switch from Tortoise to servos. Much easier to install and wire.
You probably already have the Tortoise Switch Machines so my suggestion will be of no help. |
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closetguy
Fireman
USA
1321 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 12:19:29 PM
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Hi All
Thanks Al
Yes , there is cork roadbed. Just not applied in the above pictures. My mistake is that I've already spiked over half the switches and 200 feet of flex down. Wouldn't be too hard to remove if they were Atlas but the owner wanted Shinohara used. I really do hate all those tiny spike holes. Since the track is not as flexible as Atlas, I'm going to have to go a different route. I'll have to do access holes next to the switches and plug when done and adjusted.
Thank you for all the quick responses and ideas.
Mike M |
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desertdrover
Engineer
USA
11331 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 12:49:19 PM
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Hi Mike, I made this jig. My staging yard is built like that, what I did, and I hope this all makes sense to you, is I took a Kadee height gauge and drilled out a hole in the middle front for a piano wire the same size as the Tortoise wire. Then epoxied the wire to the Kadee gauge. This way the Kadee Gauge sits on the switch after it is in place on the layout, and centers the switch to the middle/center with the wire going through. Then I got under the layout and used the Tortoise template to slip up onto the wire so I could mark the four (4) holes for the Tortoise Machine. It lined up the tortoise each and every time. This method worked like a charm for me.
Since this thread, I've posted a How-to here; http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=36749
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Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast |
Edited by - desertdrover on 05/11/2012 1:36:30 PM |
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nhguy
Fireman
USA
3689 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 4:12:07 PM
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Brilliant Louis! I hadn't thought of using a Kadee coupler gauge with a throw rod glued on it. Beats locking it on either side of the points with T pins.
The template Louis has laminated comes in the Tortoise instructions but you can purchase a template from Circutron and its made out of thin board material. There in an extra throw rod hole for mounting it offset a bit.
It is very easy to mount Tortoise machines to the underside of plywood. 1/2 inch ply is what my sub roadbed is made out of. Here are a couple of photos of my installations. The Tortoise machines amounted using a piece of 3M double sided foam tape between the machine and the plywood. They now make little squares that fit perfectly in the center of the Tortoise machine. (WalMart) This serves two purposes. One is it helps align the machine where you want it and holds it in place until you screw it in.
I use #6 or #8 3/4 inch PAN head screws. Although I have used wood screws in some places, pan head screw are less likely to crack the mounting tabs on the machine. You will need 4 per machine to hold it securely. I usually screw the opposite side and ends in to secure it then the other two to stabilize it. Although two will hold it in place with the double sided tape. Secondly, it also cuts down on the sound transfer as the machine throws. It is a motor and makes noise when throwing.
Hope this helps. |
Bill Shanaman
Superintendent, New Haven RR in the 1948 to 1952 era
PMRA President 2013-14, OpSIG Member
NCE User Since 1999
Sugar City, Colorado |
Edited by - nhguy on 05/11/2012 4:34:19 PM |
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desertdrover
Engineer
USA
11331 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 4:17:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nhguy
Brilliant Louis! I hadn't thought of using an Kadee coupler gauge with t throw rod on it. Beats locking it on either side of the point with T pins. THe template comes in the Tortoise instructions but you can purchase a template from Circutron and its made out of thin board material.
Thanks Bill. Instead of buying the Circuitron hole template, I took the paper one from the instructions and laminated it. Then punched holes into. |
Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast |
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closetguy
Fireman
USA
1321 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2012 : 10:31:03 AM
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Thank you Louis.
That was very helpful and brilliant engineering.
Mike M |
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desertdrover
Engineer
USA
11331 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2012 : 11:29:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by closetguy
Thank you Louis.
That was very helpful and brilliant engineering.
Mike M
Thanks Mike. [:-thumbu] |
Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast |
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closetguy
Fireman
USA
1321 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2012 : 8:48:54 PM
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Hey Louis
I just wanted to say thank you. I made up this very jig this morning before going to my clients house and in 4 hours I had 12 machines installed and working.
Thank you again for sharing this method
Mike M |
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desertdrover
Engineer
USA
11331 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 09:26:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by closetguy
Hey Louis
I just wanted to say thank you. I made up this very jig this morning before going to my clients house and in 4 hours I had 12 machines installed and working.
Thank you again for sharing this method
Mike M
I'm gald to have been able to help out with the ease of this method for you Mike. And thanks for the kind reply, and time to answer back with your comments.  [:-thumbu] |
Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast |
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vamodeler
Engine Wiper
245 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 3:27:04 PM
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There are some great ideas here.
Here's one i haven't seen mentioned.
While I also prefer to mount with four screws, I have had success using hot melt glue to mount the machines directly to plywood or to foam. Such installations have held up remarkably well. In two instances, I changed the track plan and removed the machines without problems, scrapped off the hot glue and used them again. Usually done under the layout, blind, but moving quickly. If the mount isn't aligned right, pull off, scrape and re-apply. Not optimal but does work.
Brian |
My Website: http://sites.google.com/site/deercreekandlaurelry/ |
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k9wrangler
Fireman
USA
5925 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 7:11:53 PM
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I also use hot melt glue with success, when access to the bottom of the layout would make it difficult to use the screws. I use the hot temp setting on the gun with multi temp sticks. That allows you some working time to get the tortoise in place before the glue sets. I put the throw arm on the switch machine at center and then attach the wire rod and then bring it up from the bottom and adjust it until the points are at center. Once energized the points will go to the proper position.
I used double stick tape a few times and after a short time they came unstuck from the bottom of the layout. |
Karl Scribner
H.M.F.W.B.I.C.
Kentucky Southern Rwy & Associated Lines
Sunfield Twp. Michigan
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mounting tortoise machines
