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runner
Fireman
USA
1066 Posts |
 Posted - 06/12/2012 : 12:26:16 PM
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| Bill the roof looks great, but I was worried about where it was going when I saw the first two pics. Great job, now on to the big corrugated roof! |
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BillMichaels
Engine Wiper
USA
249 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2012 : 2:23:50 PM
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Ahhh yes, the corrugated roof! To be honest I've been struggling with this for the last several months to get the look I wanted. I was trying to get a rust-ING rather than a rust-ED roof. But, how to do it was the vexing question. I think I consulted everyone I know in this hobby and some that I don't know. Here's the Cliff's Notes version of my 3-month roofing project:
I etched all the pieces using the Radio Shack etchant. I'm not sure if anybody else noticed this, but I got the best results when I used a glass dish to hold the etchant rather than a plastic container. With the plastic (one of those containers that deli meat comes in) the acid seemed to etch a lot hotter, faster and more intensely. I was left with panels that had holes etched right through the middle, and yet there would still be shiny areas on that same piece. For whatever reason, using a glass dish (from the Dollar store) made it more managable and consistant yielding results like I've read about on the forums.
After the panels were etched and rinsed, I started applying them. But...I didn't like the look I was getting. It felt like more of a patch-work quilt than a roof:
That lead to re-do number 1. After etching all the panels, I hit 'em with a gray automotive primer, then colored them individually with brown chalks and brown some water-mixable oil color.
Still not right...too light and too brown. So, I added some rusty chalk colors.
Hmmm...now it's too red. Better add some orange:
That looked pretty good, but I couldn't replicate this look on the other sides of the roof. I figured, "maybe I need to just get all the panels on and look at it in full context." Nope. Through a series of back-and-forths adding more orange here and more brown there, trying to get it to come together it kept getting darker and darker and...well...horrible.
Yeah, sure...full context! That's what it needs! Not so much. Full context about gave me a heart attack:
I tried to talk myself into liking the way the roof turned out. I even did a "reverse modeling" search hoping to find a prototype that looks like this. Even Google said "Zero results. Did you mean Awful Corrugated Roof?" So, feeling defeated, I shared my dilemma with Brett at Sierra West, Karl A. and Kevin O'Neill. We all kicked around ideas to fix the look of the roof and I was pretty much resigned to scrapping it and starting the whole thing over. But ultimately a non-modeller (Kevin's wife) hit upon what I'd missed from the start. Here's what Kevin wrote to me:
Hi Bill
Well I know I'm looking at many, many hours of work on the roof but something jumps right out to me. I handed the iPad to Dee Dee who really has a great eye and without any prompting she said the word I was thinking. PATTERN. When weathering each piece individually you pretty much did each one the same for the most part. Rusting along the bottom and then up the left side. When all are on the roof a definite pattern jumps out at you. It may be how the light is hitting the roof and it could look totally different in person. The rest of the build is so nice that I would hate to see this roof detract from it. I'm not sure how much you could do to take it back to a more grey galvanized look so you might have to go even further with rusting it up.
(Okay, so maybe it was Kevin AND his wife, but it makes for a much more dramatic story the way I wrote it!) So now I knew I was overlooking the underlying problem and my tweaking of colors was only making the problem worse. I have to edit some pictures and I'll show you how we fixed this thing. |
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BillMichaels
Engine Wiper
USA
249 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2012 : 7:23:57 PM
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Karl A. (UK Guy) came up with the idea of stripping off the darker colors and get the panels closer to the gray primer color. He suggested Xylol (or Xylene) to strip off the paint/chalk. I brushed on the Xylol and row by row gave each panel a light scrub. I blotted off some of the paint removing the LOUD darker colors. Most importantly it blended colors together breaking up the pattern. Here's the roof after stripping:
To add the color this time around I used "Light Rust Wash" and, "Rust Streaks" from AK Interactive.
These are real thin enamels that I dabbed on lightly and allowed them to wick up through the ribs of the corrugated panels. After they started to set, I went back over them with mineral spirits to blend them together. Here are a few indivual panels that I practiced on:
Then I dusted on a little brown chalk here and there followed by some light gray. Here's how it looks now:
Now, the colors are much more subtle and the overall look of the roof blends in better with the rest of the scene. I think I can live with this version! |
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onl26
Fireman
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2012 : 10:13:46 PM
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Hey Bill
We have been waiting to see this for some time now. I think it is a great improvement and you will be happy to hear that Dee Dee just handed the iPad back to me and gives it a big thumbs up! Let it be as is and I agree it blends in nicely with the total scene.
I would like to make a few comments to consider for the next corrugated roof you do.
1. Panels that get really over etched and eaten up I would not use. You really don't see that happen to that roofing material in real life.
2. You have not done this on your roof but everyone seems to want to curl and bend the edges of panels in a very unrealistic manner. It would take 200 mph winds to bend this material like you see on so many models.
Finally if you look at the photo of the roof you said looked like a patchwork quilt I actually like the look of most of those panels. The gray one in the middle of the bottom row is the best. If you did an entire roof with that panel color and added some very judicious rusting on some bottoms and edges that would look roof would look the most prototypical to my eye.
I guess that's enough from me on this subject so keep going with this great build Bill.it really is something special!
Kevin |
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dallas_m
Fireman
USA
3013 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2012 : 11:16:55 PM
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| Nice solution ... great teamwork ... looks much better & more subtle as you mentioned ... tribute to the benefits of cooperation among friends and forum members! |
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UKGuy
Fireman
USA
5428 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 01:43:14 AM
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Awesome!
Karl.A |
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Frederic Testard
Engineer
France
16456 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 04:53:00 AM
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| Great progress on the roof, Bill! It looks very good now, with this global rather than locally patterned color variation. |
Frederic Testard |
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brownbr
Crew Chief
USA
703 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 07:00:52 AM
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| Great job on the roof |
Bryan |
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George D
Moderator
USA
9915 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 08:05:24 AM
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The roof turned out great.
George |
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ETinBH
Fireman
USA
4242 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 09:28:00 AM
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| [:-thumbu][:-thumbu][:-thumbu][:-thumbu] |
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BillMichaels
Engine Wiper
USA
249 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 12:58:56 PM
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Thanks for all the nice comments, fellas!
Frederic-I like the way you put that: "global" vs. "local" pattern.
Dallas-the help from people on the forums is absolutely a benefit. Some of the best eyes in the hobby, all eager to help.
Kevin-this roof was a huge learning experience and I'm glad to have gone through it...and have it behind me! I agree about that panel you singled out. Using that look as a starting point would have saved me a lot of stress. Again, that's one of the lessons learned for next time. However, before I commit to that approach, I'd feel more comfortable if we ran it past Dee Dee!!
Karl-I agree!! Thanks for helping get it back on track.
I've still got some catching up to do. I finished the unloading area, the slab bin is in place, and the docks and log haul are glued down. I've got a "punch list" of little details to complete. Over the weekend I prepped the logs and the pond area. It's almost time to fill it up!
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runner
Fireman
USA
1066 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 07:41:15 AM
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Bill- if you thought the evil etchant and the roof gave you some anxious moments, wait till you pour the Envirotex in the pond. (or whatever you use- Modge Podge?)
Your tin roof is great- wasn't the first time Dee Dee's perspective has saved a model. I know!
I like the look of the logs ready for water. At first the four in the right foreground looked a little too "dress-right-dress", but I decided they look very plausible Don't forget to paint any of the logs that are on the ramps with your "water", and the ramps behind them the same way. Also, wet several of the logs on their tops as some have been rolling, or were recently dumped in from the brow. Also, a few more logs may be more fully submerged than others. I forgot to do these things, and it is much easier done when you pour the pond.
Good luck! This is going to be the best "Twin Mills" yet! |
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Rick
Administrator
USA
17743 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 08:25:32 AM
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Fantastic looking roof. [:-thumbu]
Hope you don't mind, if you do let me know and I'll remove it, but I adjusted the white balance on your picture so I could get a better idea of the colors.
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BillMichaels
Engine Wiper
USA
249 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 11:45:06 AM
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Rick-
Glad you like how the roof turned out. No problem with adjusting the color. I sent you a pm with some photography questions.
Mike-
I'm going with Envirotex for the water. I took your advice and called their customer support line (Hillary still works there!). Very helpful. She said model railroaders are the hobbyists she worries about the least because we're all so detail oriented. I'll included how/what I did when I post pics from the pour.
I'm trying to decide how many logs should be "wet". Certainly the ones on the log haul and the ones that just were dumped in. They're all in close proximity to each other so I don't want it to look odd that some are dry right near a wet one. I'll have to study more pictures.
I'm very flattered by your evalutaion of my work. Credit where credit is due: you, Elliot, and Carl L. blazed a nice trail for me and I've looked back at all of your builds extensively. |
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dallas_m
Fireman
USA
3013 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 1:53:40 PM
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| Back again admiring your work here ... it would have been so easy to "stall out" once the difficulties with the roof coloring were apparent ... GREAT JOB of moving through that and doing the sometimes tedious task of re-working something that "should be" already done. Beautiful results ... great work by yourself and "the team." |
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SWSM Twin Mills...one more time!
