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Schoolmaster
Fireman

USA
1581 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2012 :  11:57:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chattanooga is a very good prototype for the sort of thing you have in mind.

Also, your railroad doesn't need to reach Chicago, say, it can get there with trackage rights. Do you know of the Nashville, Chattanoogan, & St Louis? You could extend it further all the way to the sea in Mobile through Alabama

http://railga.com/ncsl95map.html


Or, as a rail tycoon, you can stitch together a major railroad by combining 'real' railroads, for example, combining the Monn, Mobile and Ohio, and NC&StL would reach most of the places you want to go, more with trackage rights.

You could also model the L&N which also goes most of the places.

Can you give us a list of cities and the order inwhich the railroad runs through them?

Edited by - Schoolmaster on 02/04/2012 12:26:59 PM
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Tyson Rayles
Moderator

USA
11065 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2012 :  4:44:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
John you did misunderstand. If you are building a shelf layout for every 12 inchs of track you would only need a 5" wide shelf. 5" x 12" = 60". That said that is my formula for N scale, you would need even more room in the larger scales of course.
Rhett on #1 you shouldbe O.K. at the same rate and no you don't count hidden track or off layout staging yards.

Mike
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Schoolmaster
Fireman

USA
1581 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2012 :  5:05:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

"Rhett if you allow for 50-60 square inches of scenery for every inch of visable (not counting staging) track you should have enough room for effective scenery. My own layout figures out at 57.3 inches per inch of track. I was shooting for 60 but didn't quite make it. "

Perhaps it would be clearer if the underlined word from your post said foot instead of inch. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
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HurleyStation
Engine Wiper

USA
257 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2012 :  6:43:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay, a little clarification please Is it 50 - 60 square inches of scenery to 1inch or 1 foot of track.[:-banghead]
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Schoolmaster
Fireman

USA
1581 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2012 :  7:11:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Every foot.

If you look at Tyson Rayles' clarification, he says 5" x 12" = 60 sqin and has 12" of track.

I think that he's talking about mainline distance too. I do not think that having a passing track or double track mainline would require a doubling of scenery area. I would assume that such track did not count as sceneray area either, so although a 5" shelf would do for single track, you would need to widen it to about 6" if double track or passing siding.


The lower deck of my Santa Fe railroad had a single track branch about 80 feet long with an average depth of about 14" and the scenic treatment was decent, so this seems to work.

Edited by - Schoolmaster on 02/04/2012 7:13:18 PM
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Tyson Rayles
Moderator

USA
11065 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2012 :  10:07:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is foot, my bad! And yes I do count the passing sidings and yard tracks but not double track main as extra or additional track. Sorry for the confusion, on the other hand if you did allow 60 inches per inch of track you could have some wonderful scenery!

Mike

Edited by - Tyson Rayles on 02/05/2012 4:05:27 PM
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HurleyStation
Engine Wiper

USA
257 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2012 :  10:46:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've done some calculatin' and got me some numbers. Now a fairly close estimate for area is 16416 sq in, subtracting 7416 for track (that is 1854 linear inches X 4" wide) leaves 9000 sq in for scenery. 1854 linear in is 154.5 linear ft. This gave me a ratio of 58.5 sq in per linear ft of track. So my ratio seems okay. The actual ratio would be even higher except I applied the 4" width (for double track) to the single track as well.I did not figure the yard area and footage into this calculation.
Catt, I got some more shots of the Funeral home from the side and the back and also the restaurant on the water . I will download the pics in the morning and see how they look, if good enough I will post them.
John, earlier on I said Gulf & Mobile, what I meant was the Gulf, Mobile & Ohio which was based here in Mobile, and will be my main.
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HurleyStation
Engine Wiper

USA
257 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2012 :  07:15:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here are the additional pics of Robinsons Friendly Funeral Home and Rachel's Widow Walk:
1) for the Funeral Home here are a couple of side shots and one of the back.












2) Here are some additional pics for Rachel's Widow Walk restaurant.








there are boats tied up to a pier behind the restaurant - they are not very clear through the weeds - sorry




This is the spiral stairs on the side of the building;




These are the front stairs:




This is a shot of the supporting structure:





Hope you can use these
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Schoolmaster
Fireman

USA
1581 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2012 :  09:52:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The GM&O was not headquartered in Mobile until after your 1950 timeframe limit IIRC, but otherwise, the MGN, MO and Alton combine is good. You may need to 'add' comething like the NC&StL to get the hilly terrain you want, although the Mississippi bluffs might do the job.

One thing I forgot to mention aerlier is that since this is your fisrt big layout, I GUARANTEE that your ideas/wants/ and expectations will change significantly as you build and develop the layout. At the moment, you think you know what you want, but as you find out more and get more experience, your new knowledge will change what you want. It happens to all of us as we learn. For that reason, and suggestions I make will be conservative. The only thing I can forsee is the need to allow for the unforseeable.

With that said, lets look at the mainline and route. I'm asuming that we will freelance a GM&O like railroad. Because this is a combination of several railroads, we can model parts in difference architectural stlyes.

Also, the GM&N and M&O had parallel mainlines that were combined in the GM&O. You want double track, but I think it would be interesting to model this as two single track mainlines running though the same space and operated as double-track. (I did this on the main line of my Santa Fe layout, representing a place where the SF did this). It allows you to run two tracks through one scene with 'sincerity'.

The Alton gives you a flattish mainline from Chicago to St Louis, there it joins with the M&O and runs south out if Illinois to Cairo and on to a major facility at Jackson, Tennessee. Here it intersects with the old NC&StL East-West main which gives access to Nashville, Chattanooga, and Atlanta and also meets the GM&N

From here both mainlines run south into Mississippi through Meridian and Jackson, and on to Mobile. To get to Montgomery and Birmingham, I'd use trackage rights over the L&N from Mobile, ultimately connecting back with the NC&StL at Alabama City.

For a two deck layout, it would seem to be reasonable to model the flatter Alabama/Mississippi sections with the port (it could be Mobile, but it could be Gulfport of a fictional smaller port. on the lower deck, and the hillier lands toward Chattanooga or Nashville on the upper deck.

How does that sound?

Edited by - Schoolmaster on 02/05/2012 10:22:34 AM
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HurleyStation
Engine Wiper

USA
257 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2012 :  3:11:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To be honest, and no offense intended here I am using some historical basis but where I have to bend history some is not a problem for me. For instance my main focus is steam, but I like the G,M & O especially since there is still a strong presence here in Mobile.In fact I may join the historical society. That won't stop me from labeling steam loco's with the G,M & O emblems and running heavyweight passenger cars as the Rebel with steam motive. Mobile Bay and the mouth of the Pascagoula River have great waterfronts with heavy and light industry as well as fishing towns. Lots of railroads around here too.
My main concern is having a decent layout, looking at my plan I think I see what is a problem. Tell me if I'm wrong. Basically I have three loops with a few branches, and this is not a prototypical approach.I am going to study some more layouts for some pointers, there are some features that I do want to keep and I'll have to work on those. One being able to have a continuos running train if possible. Another is having a freelance approach. This is for fun
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Schoolmaster
Fireman

USA
1581 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2012 :  3:36:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wasn't suggesting a historical model, but more of a might-have-been with a historical basis, using elements of real railroads to ground things.

Personally, I think having the entire lower deck representing aspects of the greater Mobile Bay area, industries, port, and scenery, with a couple of different railroads meeting and interchanging (with continuous run and staging) would be a great start. Your helix can then lead to an upper deck and elsewhere.
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Tyson Rayles
Moderator

USA
11065 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2012 :  4:16:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rhett having the ability to keep one train running and have the track plan make sense and have creditable scenery is very doable freelance or not. But when you try to keep several trains going then it becomes hard to do justice to the track plan and the scenery. You are taking on a very complex layout for it to be your first one, I hope you don't burn yourself out with it. Remember to go slow and don't rush anything it's a hobby not a race. My own layout is in it's 5th year I think and it is still about 30% unscenicked and the staging yards are still not done and that's on a layout that's only 14 square feet! When was the last time you did any model building (trains or anything else)?

Mike
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HurleyStation
Engine Wiper

USA
257 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2012 :  10:33:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like that John, in fact that works with what I've had in mind. Mike, I'm not rushing I figure this being at least a ten year project or more. First project is going to be tearing out the carpet in the room and laying tile. Then my first priotity will be building my workbench. My last real modeling was back in August before our move. It's driving me nuts not having a work space at the moment. I have several models in progress that are still packed up. That's why I've been trying to work on my layout plan
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Schoolmaster
Fireman

USA
1581 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2012 :  10:41:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For a single operator layout, even with DCC, it;s hard to handle more than one train. You can have a freight or a passenger train running miles on the main line while you run another train, but that's about it.

Rhett. Can you give us more exact details of the dimensions of the room, including doorways, appliances, pipes, and other immovable objects, and an idea of overhead clearances, or ceiling height. I'd like to do some sketches on paper.
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LandNnut
Fireman

USA
1518 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2012 :  11:02:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit LandNnut's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The reason I thought of Chattanooga is that it has all the things you mentioned all in one place.

Topography - (terrain) Hilly area-Chattanooga has hill and Mountains

near waterfront- Chattanooga has its own water front, The Tennessee River with lots of steam boats tugs and barges

alot of steam powered industry, well worn and weathered. Chattanooga had lots of industry.

Few paved roads, mostly dirt and/or gravel." The roads were not paved to begin with

and a really great RR history
L&N nut
Jon


Edited by - LandNnut on 02/05/2012 11:04:44 PM
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