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Coaltrain
Crew Chief

955 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2011 :  6:16:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well...one thing for sure, I can't paint backdrops. I have been struggling with this for weeks and I am about at the end of my rope. I have repainted this so many times that I am can even remember. I have spent way too much time on this and way too much money in paint and I have to live with what I have.

If there is a painter out there that can give me a pointer I am open. I can't seem to get the colors to work the way I see them.



Edited by - Coaltrain on 03/18/2011 1:39:01 PM
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quarryman
Fireman

USA
1130 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2011 :  9:08:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit quarryman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jeff-

I could not begin to guess how many times I did sections of my backdrop over. Your backdrop looks pretty good for the most part. Just needs some adjustments. I sent you a PM.

Mark

Visit my Piedmont & East Blue Ridge Railroad
http://www.eastblueridge.com
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CieloVistaRy
Fireman

USA
5208 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2011 :  12:33:45 AM  Show Profile  Send CieloVistaRy an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Jeff,

What exactly don't you like about it? I have some ideas but would like to know what it is you're not happy with.

Arthur

Arthur

Cielo Vista Railway (on30)
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Coaltrain
Crew Chief

955 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2011 :  08:31:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am not sure what I don't like about it, I think that it looks to flat and there are too much defined tree bumps. I am trying some of the suggestions Mark sent me and I will post the results bofore I scrap it. So far I like it better doing what Mark suggested but I may go over it with something to eliminate the "tree ball" look.

What is so overwhelming is the size, it is 4 feet deep at the middle and 14' long, and for a beginner that is a huge painting.
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CieloVistaRy
Fireman

USA
5208 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2011 :  10:16:19 AM  Show Profile  Send CieloVistaRy an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I see where you're coming from when you say it looks flat- I would suggest you try a gradient type of wash out- maybe even use highly diluted airbrushing over what you currently have- the farther away something is, the more hazy it is. That even includes the mountains in the background- their bottom part would contain more color and the uppermost part be more hazy.

I think the foremost mountain with the trees in detail looks fine at the top, but as you progress towards the bottom, they should gradually have more and more green and detail. Perhaps try the stippling technique that increases as you reach the bottom? Look up Bob Ross on youtube for the stippling techniques he uses?

I suppose you could send Troels an email for the ultimate advice. After all he is the master in residence when it comes to painting.

Arthur

Arthur

Cielo Vista Railway (on30)
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CieloVistaRy
Fireman

USA
5208 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2011 :  10:19:37 AM  Show Profile  Send CieloVistaRy an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Also, I may be mistaken but in regard to the foreground green mountain, it looks like you drew a line and then painted up to this line- if so, you should break that with stippling techniques, e.g. tall trees and even the occasional pine.. that visual line would not be smooth in nature.

Arthur

Arthur

Cielo Vista Railway (on30)

Edited by - CieloVistaRy on 03/19/2011 10:21:36 AM
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Jordan114
Engine Wiper

USA
130 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2011 :  12:46:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How is the coal dump trestle coming along Jeff??

Jordan

Modeling The Wisconsin Northern Railroad
"The Weyerhaeuser Route"
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Coaltrain
Crew Chief

955 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2011 :  05:30:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
no progress on it at all. I got involved rebuilding an old Kemtron 37 ton shay and it is kicking my butt. I am searching for a Grandt Line regear kit for it and not having luck. The drive in the shay is very free running but the drive is not so good and I have too much friction, it makes it run too slow, too hot, and too noisy. I am scratchbuilding a new cab and fuel bunker for it, I will post photos sometime this weekend when the cab starts to look like a cab.

After this shay gets running I plan on doing another big progress push on the layout. the backdrop is looking better with some advice I got from Mark. I just have a little bit left on the backdrop painting and then I will get back to the dump trestle.

I got into the shay project because I want the bigger shay to be my main locomotive and I needed it running to test how steep I can make the grade up the switch back. As soon as the shay is running I will start building up to the mine and get some operations started.
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kirk
Fireman

Sweden
4739 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2011 :  06:52:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jeff, I just dumped in to catch up... Painting good backdrops is hard for everyone, including me! You have got a fine depth established already. Your green dots on a dark background looks exactly like green dots on a dark background. Try having a serious look at your reference photos, looking at how where the single trees blend/melt together to a uniform mass, and the shapes of the darkest shadows. Often it is easier to make the hill green, with a variation of darker/lighter and slightly bluer on the top, then painting in the shadows you really see in the photo. Forget that you are painting trees, and concentrate on shapes of different colors... Try looking with your eyelids almost pinched together, to get a blurred version... you will see the general variations in hue and shapes without the disturbing detail. Try isolating the colors in the printed photo by looking at them in a hole punched in a white piece of paper. Painting convincing landscapes is really difficult, so keep it simple and don't give up!

Troels Kirk
Näsum, Sweden
http://coastline.no13.se
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kirk
Fireman

Sweden
4739 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2011 :  06:55:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Forgot to ask what colors you are using? Which greens and yellows so you have? :o)

Troels Kirk
Näsum, Sweden
http://coastline.no13.se
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Coaltrain
Crew Chief

955 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2011 :  05:43:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kirk

Forgot to ask what colors you are using? Which greens and yellows so you have? :o)



I am using hunter green, paynes gray, and some of the backdrop blue, those are the only colors I am using. I got the Kalmbach book on painting backdrops and I followed the part on painting Appalachian backdrops and it recommend just those colors. I have tons of other colors but when I mix them the colors go crazy. I also have just basic red, blue, yellow.

I will post a photo of it after I did a wash with a lavender that Mark suggested and it made it look better, it blended the "green dots" with the blacks better.

I am afraid that I will spend too much time on this backdrop if I get too detailed painting it. I have a ton of hours into it now. I would like to just paint over all I have now with a fresh coat of blue and start over but I have weeks in this thing the way it is.
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bullbrauch
Engine Wiper

124 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2011 :  9:26:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Coaltrain,

I've enjoyed reading about your' layout! I mostly model in HOn3 but I do dabble in On3 D&RGW. I've been using the SJCC evolution couplers to and love them so far! I'm amazed how good they look on your smaller equipment, it's a very nice touch. I haven't been able to operate any of my On3 equipment yet and I'm curious if you are happy with how they operate?

Brandan
Living in Colorado,
home of the Rio Grande
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Bill Uffelman
Crew Chief

USA
924 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2011 :  11:03:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Coal Train -- Check with Lee Snover in NJ for Shay drive components. Presume you called Coronado Scale Models in Phoenix.

Bill Uffelman
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Coaltrain
Crew Chief

955 Posts

Posted - 04/17/2011 :  07:08:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Uffelman

Coal Train -- Check with Lee Snover in NJ for Shay drive components. Presume you called Coronado Scale Models in Phoenix.

Bill Uffelman



How would I get a hold of Lee?

I called Grandt Line and they said they should be able to piece together a kit minus motor, which is fine because I have the motor. If that does not work out I will try Lee.
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Coaltrain
Crew Chief

955 Posts

Posted - 04/17/2011 :  07:12:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bullbrauch

Coaltrain,

I've enjoyed reading about your' layout! I mostly model in HOn3 but I do dabble in On3 D&RGW. I've been using the SJCC evolution couplers to and love them so far! I'm amazed how good they look on your smaller equipment, it's a very nice touch. I haven't been able to operate any of my On3 equipment yet and I'm curious if you are happy with how they operate?




Out of the package they operate ok, unless you like to do a lot of switching and use uncoupling picks in the knuckles, then they are a little hard to work. What I do on mine is take a small Dremel high speed cutter and open up the knuckle pocket a very small amount so there is a little bit more area for the knuckles to slop around in.

Edited by - Coaltrain on 04/17/2011 07:14:17 AM
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