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MarkF
Engineer
USA
9272 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2011 : 10:14:50 AM
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| Ralph, I've been meaning to ask you if you were going to equip your rolling stock with resistance wheelsets. How are you going to go about that? |
Mark
See my homepage at http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/
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nhguy
Fireman
USA
3666 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 1:04:02 PM
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Ralph,
I asked my friend Doug Geiger about how he did his CTC machine. Here is his reply:
We recorded the relay sounds from my machine. There is a wav file on the CMRI users Yahoo group that he can use. He can use a DreamPlayer box to play an SD card with the wav file on it.
Our machine actually runs the column lamps based on the relays.
Have him get in touch with me for further details.
-Doug Geiger
Here is his Email addy: gmry@comcast.net
Tell him I referred you.
Bill |
Bill Shanaman
Superintendent, New Haven RR in the 1948 to 1952 era
PMRA President 2013-14, OpSIG Member
NCE User Since 1999
Sugar City, Colorado |
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conrailbill
Section Hand
59 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 8:45:31 PM
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| Bill, As a frequent contributor to the C/MRI site, I saw Doug's posting and downloaded copy of the 2 Wave files Doug uploaded to the C/MRI group. And I checked out the Dreamplayer web site and passed on the link to Ralph. In the meantime, I'm still going to move forward with my temporary solution of using the BASIC command called SOUND to generate some basic relay chatter which I should have up and running by the end of the week for Ralph. This will give Ralph time to assess the Dreamplayer approach. |
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nhguy
Fireman
USA
3666 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 12:33:01 AM
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| Bill, Just another option. Not trying to step on toes here. Bill S. |
Bill Shanaman
Superintendent, New Haven RR in the 1948 to 1952 era
PMRA President 2013-14, OpSIG Member
NCE User Since 1999
Sugar City, Colorado |
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LVRALPH
Fireman
5430 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 05:48:42 AM
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Bill S ,your not stepping on toes. I will investigate the dream player. Part of it will come down to budget. I need SM-1's and another SMINI more that the sound hardware from an operational standpoint, but I'll talk to Hueber and see what he thinks. If he thinks sound will greatly improve the "dispatchers experience" then we can re prioritize.
I'm off from work today and will be working on this project all day. Yesterday I picked up some 12 V red lamps from RS. They are just slightly larger than the holes in the plate I have. As soon as I get the new DOUT32 card working, I am going to install this plate and hook up the code indicator lamps per Bill's suggestion. I hope to get the new card working today.
I feel like an idiot this morning. When Hueber was over Sunday, we could not get the DCCOD to stop displaying occupied in block 1551. I came home last night and got ready to trace out feeders, when I noticed a wreck train at the end of the block. The DCCOD is doing it's job saying there is a train. I never restaged that train from the last session. I forgot about that. I'll move it today and see if the detector clears.
Mark, I am using SMT resistors and a conductive pen to provide detection. I checked into purchasing replacement wheelsets and the cost was upwards of 700 dollars. I ordered 1000, 20K SMT (surface mount) resistors and a conductive silver pen. That will do 500 cars, one wheelset in each truck. I plan on attaching the tiny SMT resistor to the axle and completeing the trace with the pen. I use Kadee wheelsets 95% and they have plastic axles as do most of myu other cars. A little epoxy to hold the resistor, draw out the trace and check with the VOM and it should be done. A guy in Bruce's book says he knocks out 200 of during a football game. I think I can have enough cars in the trains to give proper occupance. Cost was $18 for the resistors and $41 for the consuctive pen. plus my time which during the slow swason, I have lots of it. |
Edited by - LVRALPH on 04/21/2011 06:04:06 AM |
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conrailbill
Section Hand
59 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 11:13:06 AM
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Bill S. I agree with Ralph, your not stepping on any toes here. I welcome input as it might be something I missed along the way. And not being a RR guy, just an experienced programmer and a model RR'r, your observations on other model RR's OPS and implementations are quite welcomed as to how folks approach solving issues such as sound, local control of turnouts, etc. Please, keep on commenting as it is always welcomed.
I have been involved in this particular project with Ralph since last June, and have only joined his comment blog a few days ago to provide additional technical input. So, we are quite a ways down the road in the project.
Regarding the "Relay Sound", as a programmer, I find it a neat little project. And it gives Ralph a temporary solution until he and Hueber can come up with more permanent solution, such as the one you suggested. I may even add your Dreamplayer suggestion, used by Doug Geiger, to my C/MRI-based CP-SK interlocking tower panel.
Bill
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conrailbill
Section Hand
59 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 11:22:43 AM
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| Ralph, Regarding sound generation for relay chatter, another suggestion from the C/MRI message group was to possibly use a rotary stepper motor and an old Telco Relay hooked to an output pin. |
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nhguy
Fireman
USA
3666 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 2:39:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by conrailbill
Bill S. I agree with Ralph, your not stepping on any toes here. I welcome input as it might be something I missed along the way. And not being a RR guy, just an experienced programmer and a model RR'r, your observations on other model RR's OPS and implementations are quite welcomed as to how folks approach solving issues such as sound, local control of turnouts, etc. Please, keep on commenting as it is always welcomed.
I have been involved in this particular project with Ralph since last June, and have only joined his comment blog a few days ago to provide additional technical input. So, we are quite a ways down the road in the project.
Regarding the "Relay Sound", as a programmer, I find it a neat little project. And it gives Ralph a temporary solution until he and Hueber can come up with more permanent solution, such as the one you suggested. I may even add your Dreamplayer suggestion, used by Doug Geiger, to my C/MRI-based CP-SK interlocking tower panel.
Bill
Doug G. has a remote "tower" CTC machine in one town on his layout. I had the privilege to operate it. That is where the sound from the Dream Player (or his equivalent) was located. Pretty neat to press the 'send' button and hear the relays chattering. Bill |
Bill Shanaman
Superintendent, New Haven RR in the 1948 to 1952 era
PMRA President 2013-14, OpSIG Member
NCE User Since 1999
Sugar City, Colorado |
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LVRALPH
Fireman
5430 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 3:10:24 PM
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Bill, that sounds really neat! Some progress so far today. I finished hooking up the block 22 (passing siding) sub feeder to the detector. But I could not get an occupied input on the computer screen upstairs. Suspecting a bad detector, I built another one and installed it. Perfect! Now I have a occupancy detected on the computer input screen. I will install that occupancy lamp. Earlier I installed the occupancy lamp for block 1552.
I will check out the non detecting detector at a later time. I will check all the components and replace some with some spares that I have. Maybee I'll get lucky. I will cover that in a later post. |
Edited by - LVRALPH on 04/20/2011 3:11:06 PM |
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LVRALPH
Fireman
5430 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2011 : 7:49:05 PM
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Well, It looks like I have a bunch of soldering to do. Looking at Bills program, I am goin to need detectors for the tracks from Solomon's (OS 160) to Laurel run (OS 164) and the two blocks between Laurel Run and the entrance of Coxton Yard These will be the last devices that can be reached from these SMINI's at Crestwood.
Bill also has inputs programmed for the 2 blocks east of Penn Haven (OS 131) before Hetchel (OS 125) That is the farthest west we can reach from our Crestwood location.
So, I am soldering up another ODMB (mother board) for the new detectors (which still need to be built. I hate building these as the nuts are a royal paint to solder.
It looks like I will be able to have signals from OS 131 (Penn Haven) to OS 164 (Laurel Run) and detection (block occupancy lamps) from Hetchel to the entrance of Coxton Yard for the op session. |
Edited by - LVRALPH on 04/20/2011 7:51:45 PM |
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LVRALPH
Fireman
5430 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2011 : 06:13:55 AM
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I'm just stepping back and reviewing where I am as we approach the first year of this project. Hueber and I had been talking about building a CTC machine ( I was doing it on a computer screen). I made a deal with him, I'll fund the electronics as the budget allows, you handle the hardware. I sold $1000 of creaftsman kits to fund the purchase of the electronics.
On the day before Mothers Day last year we attended the sad occasion of the estate sale of the late Bill Gruber. Well, Hueber was the winning bidder, and with the permission of my wonderfull wife, the CTC machine resides in our unformal living room.
I remember looking at all the wires and going OMG. But I have been in this position before and suceeded, so confidence was not lacking. With a large order of electronic components, a big piece of machinery I ventured forward. I am very happy of the progress made and anxious to see it come to life. We would not be where we are today without the generous efforts of Bill Carr (Conrail Bill) and his programming efforts.
Would I have been able to get there with the programming. Maybe, thanks to Bruce's new manual where most of the programming is done but the road would have been long and slow. So a special shout out to Bill who continues to crank out programming for the LVRR Wyoming Division.
The one thing i have learned about the people attracted to this hobby, is there is not shortage of people willing to help ypou bring your vision of railroading to life. I have also been blessed with other friends who have helped such as Joe Hueber, Mark F, Bruce Barrett (Steam nut) Rich W, Bill Howard (Diamond Bill) and many others. To all a big thank you. |
Edited by - LVRALPH on 04/21/2011 06:20:02 AM |
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LVRALPH
Fireman
5430 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2011 : 6:18:48 PM
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| I just finished the second ODMB (mother board) for the next group of detectors. My goal this weekend is to get block 1621 (the single track between Solomon's Gap and Laurel Run) operational and reporting to the CTC machine as well as the two blocks east of Penn haven(1261 and 1262). I also need to get OS 131 W feeder strung. Detectors must be built for all so I need to build at least 4 DCCOD's. |
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LVRALPH
Fireman
5430 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2011 : 8:28:28 PM
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Today was a good day, outside of the nice gash I put in my bald head when i hit the corner of a card car box. I said some very bad words and bled a lot.
First I built a detector for block 1621. I could not get it to read unoccupied. I had to rip all the facia off between Solomons Gap and Laurel Run, but I found the problem. When I first installed detectors on this section of the RR I "distributed" them around to minimize wire runs. Except, they get hidden and lost when you do it this way. Having them centrally located helps with troubleshooting, but uses a lot more wire. In this day and age of high copper prices that is no easy decision.
Anyway, connected to the bus was a detector hidden behind an L girder. Once I disconnected that, the block detector cleared and worked perfectly. Plus, I had another detector!
I then ran the wire for OS 160 (Solomon's Gap) and connected it to it's detector. Both detectors were reporting properly upstairs on the CTC machine, so now all I have to do is install the block occupancy lamps on the CTC machine. i hope to finish that tommorrow. That will give me complete block occupancy between Laurel Run and Penn Haven. And I will be able to extend that to Hetchel shortly after I build two more detectors. Not to shabby. I still can't get the pins contolling OS turnout 153 to work properly. They are either both at ground or both high, resulting in no switch machine power. I may just ask Bill to move them to some other outputs since I can't get them to work.
I then installed the passing siding operating plate at Solomon's Gap. This will be a dispatcher controlled turnout sometime in the future. For now, crews will have to contact the dispatcher for permission to throw the turnout, then using the switch key, change the turnout from motor to hand. In the hand position, local crews will then have control of the turnout. This was from a suggestion in Bruce's book by Mike Burgett.
I then spent 2 hours cleaning a very dirty basement. A long day, but progress.
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Edited by - LVRALPH on 04/23/2011 8:33:10 PM |
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jbvb
Fireman
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2011 : 8:59:34 PM
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| Still following along, looks good! |
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LandNnut
Fireman
USA
1495 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2011 : 9:22:32 PM
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nice panel
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Signaling my model railroad
