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nhguy
Fireman
USA
3689 Posts |
 Posted - 04/17/2011 : 02:29:01 AM
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| Do any of your guys know Lee Nicholas of Utah Colorado fame? He has a way to use a key to unlock local turnouts with Dispatcher's permission. He uses a CTC board and the Dispatcher 'gives' the local switches to the crew when requested. It's a real neat system. You ought to give him a call and see if he might be able to give some guidance or advice on how to implement local control with CTC. He's located in the Salt Lake City, UT area. I have operated on this layout and it's a real gem. |
Bill Shanaman
Superintendent, New Haven RR in the 1948 to 1952 era
PMRA President 2013-14, OpSIG Member
NCE User Since 1999
Sugar City, Colorado |
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LVRALPH
Fireman
5431 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2011 : 06:27:41 AM
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Bill, I have read about him, and his work has been mentioned in Bruce's book. How to implement the local control is not the problem. It's choosing the way you want to do it. Some of it is being driven by the CTC machine we aquired, other methods by my desire. All of the methods I have tried so far work. My parts order just came in and we will be using the "key" method for crews to unlock the switch motor from motor position and throw it into hand position. Then the local crew will have control. With dispatcher permission of course.
The passing siding turnouts were a different problem. The prime directive was to use the hardware that the late Bill Gruber had installed on his machine as much as possible. We do not want to ruin what he created. So Bill, came up with a nice solution that will have crews throw those turnouts. I could install a key in the circuit, but my thinking is to eventually give the dispatcher control of theses turnouts. Why, because the mnountain can get busy, and it allows the dispatcher to throw a mainline train in the hole and still hold one on one of the main tracks.
What causes operational problems (fun) is that I designed it this way. I did not want a double track RR from end to end, but purposely put a stretch of single track on either side of the triple track up the mountain. Made the dispatching of the RR a little more of an opererational challenge.
Yesterday was a good day. Heavy rain ment a big day in the basement. I spent a lot of the day testing, cleaning up some wiring, and most importantly finishing up the soldering of a DOUT 32 output card for the CTC machine. I'm out of outputs to drive the lever lamps and and track indicator lights. This will be a big help. I already did one board inspection last evening, but I want to do another this AM. I'm a morning guy, so I'm fresher. Then I will insert the components and be ready for card insertion. I'm going to take a chance and not test this baby. I have built a SMINI, SUSIC, DIN 32, DOUT 32 and RS conversion card with no problems other than a hardware issue. Don wood had a chance to review my PC board soldering skills and said I was good. So I will install this and see what happens. I have more of a chance of damaging what I have installed taking everything apart that taking a chance with it. I do feel confident here. I will not be able to install this untill I complete the DIN 32 input card as the next version of the program that Bill has written contains the proper initialization and identification programming to let the microcontroller know these cards are present. That will be LVCTC301 version of the program. I'm running LVCTC201 right now. Then all I have to do is build that SMINI and more of the RR will come to life. |
Edited by - LVRALPH on 04/17/2011 06:37:12 AM |
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conrailbill
Section Hand
59 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2011 : 09:57:03 AM
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For the curious, I am uploading two more electrical diagrams that depict, in simple terms, typical electrical connections for the C/MRI hardware to RR-related type devices, such as toggles, push buttons, block detectors, relays, Signal/Panel LED's.
Download Attachment:  typical CMRI Input connections.JPG
90.84 KB
Download Attachment: typical CMRI Output connections.JPG
60.21 KB |
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conrailbill
Section Hand
59 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2011 : 10:13:07 AM
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Regarding the inquiry about Lee Nichols' layout and Ralph's Comments: Ralph correctly described his situation.
There are several opportunities in Ralph's layout configuration to use a number of different approaches regarding local vs dispatcher control: Mainline turnouts, Passing Siding between Solomon's Gap and Crestwood creating a long triple track section, Low density industrical Spurs, and two sets of staging.
Each presents a different requirement, and in each requirement are specific needs such as future options, consistency in circuitry for support/maintenance, and how to implement so that some part of the RR can operate without the C/MRI hardware, and how to minimize hardware and software changes for any future changes.
In some of these cases, Ralph will be taking advantage of newer approaches to local control such as the barrel keys for simulating pad locks, and automatic electrically locked spur turnouts which might also use the barrel key for the pad lock portion.
In a previous posting, I articulated two approaches to installing electrically locked turnouts. One was a general description of a complex implementation originally described by Bruce in his Apps Manual that used a Locked Fascia-mounted Door. Bruce and I worked on that scenario together to come up with a method of interlocking the pad lock, the door, the request lever, and turnout hand throw. The other approach I described in my post was a much simpler approach based in part on Mike Burgett's contribution to that same Apps Manual that used Barrel type lock switches. I modified this later approach for Ralph to have the following: a Barrel Switch to simulate the Pad Lock, a Selector Toggle to simulate the Request Lever, and the typical Hand Throw Toggle that actually controls the turnout.
Another consideration is the type of switch motor being employed and how best to utilize existing circuitry such as the circuits used for his mainline slow-motion turnouts.
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conrailbill
Section Hand
59 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2011 : 10:39:05 AM
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One way to test the new DOUT32 card is to set it's address to the same address as the current installed DOUT32 card, then substitute the two cards, then perform all of the Diagnostics Rotary Switch Position tests. That set of tests will exercise all the outputs of the new Card, especially since we used all the output pins on that card for the CTC machine lamps. The Diagnostics Rotary switch allows one to test on-the-fly, by temporarily telling the computer program to stop the normal real-time loop processing, and simply perform a particular test scenario, based upon the position of the diagnostics rotary switch.
One test sets all the track side signals to one color, then hitting the return key changes the color. The sequence is to first display all RED, then GREEN, then YELLOW, then DARK. This allows one to check out all the wiring of the signals on the RR.
Another test does a "chase" light pattern of all the block indicotor LAMPS on the CTC panel.
Another test checks out both the inputs and outputs of the code buttons, switch and signal levers, manual control toggles, and all the associated LAMPS for switch levers, signal levers, and manual control Lamps. This mode also checks out the signals and turnouts. We call this mode the "direct drive mode".
All of these tests give the layout owner a chance to quickly check all the basic functions of the panel and RR equipment before an operating session. Additionally, these tests assist in the initial implementation diagnostics process. How? They by-pass the majority of the CMRI programming subroutines by forcing lamps and signals and turnouts to response directly by simply operating the levers on the panel. Running in Normal Mode, the rest of the subroutines are called into play which add complexity such as the simulated delay features of hitting code buttons and waiting for indications to return from the field and the complexity of signal logic specific to each OS
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Edited by - conrailbill on 04/17/2011 10:41:33 AM |
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nhguy
Fireman
USA
3689 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2011 : 12:45:43 PM
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| Ralph and Bill. There are several layout I operate on here in Colorado that use CTC machines and some sort of electronic 'lock out' for main and siding switches. Some use the CMRI and others use a different program. They all model different era's and it is interesting to see them in action. One use a real CTC machine with the contacts that came out of a WP tower. Another uses a 'recorded' sound module of the contacts setting. The other just uses the CMRI on a computer screen. Yet another uses JMRI Panel Pro. So I see where your going with this Ralph. I just thought I would throw that out there for you. You are way ahead of the game from me. I will be using a simple ABS block control on my layout but nothing like the CTC system you are installing. I haven't even start thinking about it yet except where my basic blocks will be. It's great that your putting this up for us to see and learn from. |
Bill Shanaman
Superintendent, New Haven RR in the 1948 to 1952 era
PMRA President 2013-14, OpSIG Member
NCE User Since 1999
Sugar City, Colorado |
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LVRALPH
Fireman
5431 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2011 : 3:23:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nhguy
Ralph and Bill. There are several layout I operate on here in Colorado that use CTC machines and some sort of electronic 'lock out' for main and siding switches. Some use the CMRI and others use a different program. They all model different era's and it is interesting to see them in action. One use a real CTC machine with the contacts that came out of a WP tower. Another uses a 'recorded' sound module of the contacts setting. The other just uses the CMRI on a computer screen. Yet another uses JMRI Panel Pro. So I see where your going with this Ralph. I just thought I would throw that out there for you. You are way ahead of the game from me. I will be using a simple ABS block control on my layout but nothing like the CTC system you are installing. I haven't even start thinking about it yet except where my basic blocks will be. It's great that your putting this up for us to see and learn from.
Bill, I'd like to know more about the sound of the CTC machine. That is something I really want to implement. |
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LVRALPH
Fireman
5431 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2011 : 6:28:51 PM
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Today was a good day on the LVRR. Hueber was in the house. Together we were able to get OS 153. block 1552 and almost block 1551. Almost. Well, I get the detector to give a occupied all the time, just like I had with block 1451. I cut a gap at solomons Gap that had closed, but it did not fix the problem. I think I might have a feeder connected to the main buss, as that is the only thing I can think would cause that.
Also, on the CTC machine, track occupancy lamp 1321 stopped working. Running the test diagnostics the lamp lights properly. The only thing i did was yesterday changed program versions. I will run the prior version and see if it works again. If not, then I need to research other solutions.
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conrailbill
Section Hand
59 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2011 : 9:45:47 PM
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| Ralph, The track lamp output pin for Block 1321 has not changed in the last 4 versions of the code. |
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conrailbill
Section Hand
59 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2011 : 9:52:38 PM
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Ralph, regarding sounds, the current program code has variables already installed and activated if you chose to install a set of sound cards that would take an SMINI or DOUT32 card output.
The variables are called CCSOUND and ICSOUND, which stand for the code messaging and indication messaging respectively. Also, we could simply add sound using the programming language construct called SOUND where we can cause "relay chatter" to occur during the emulated delay processing already part of the code.
You also need to add your CODE and INDICATOR LAMPS so that your dispatchers will have the visual effects of transmitting and receiving code and indication messaging. It will go a long way in having the dispatcher get the "feel" of the processing that is taking place. These two values are also currently programmed into the system and are awaiting the addition of the second DOUT32 card and the 2 CTC-panel based LAMPS.
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nhguy
Fireman
USA
3689 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 01:37:21 AM
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quote:
Bill, I'd like to know more about the sound of the CTC machine. That is something I really want to implement.
Let me work on that Ralph.
Bill |
Bill Shanaman
Superintendent, New Haven RR in the 1948 to 1952 era
PMRA President 2013-14, OpSIG Member
NCE User Since 1999
Sugar City, Colorado |
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LVRALPH
Fireman
5431 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 05:13:54 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by conrailbill
Ralph, regarding sounds, the current program code has variables already installed and activated if you chose to install a set of sound cards that would take an SMINI or DOUT32 card output.
The variables are called CCSOUND and ICSOUND, which stand for the code messaging and indication messaging respectively. Also, we could simply add sound using the programming language construct called SOUND where we can cause "relay chatter" to occur during the emulated delay processing already part of the code.
You also need to add your CODE and INDICATOR LAMPS so that your dispatchers will have the visual effects of transmitting and receiving code and indication messaging. It will go a long way in having the dispatcher get the "feel" of the processing that is taking place. These two values are also currently programmed into the system and are awaiting the addition of the second DOUT32 card and the 2 CTC-panel based LAMPS.
/quote]
Bill, I plan on trying to install the code and indicator lamps as soon as the new ouput card in installed. That is high priority. Also, I would like to drive the sound ASAP. I just need to get the sounds, and the circuit that I can build. |
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LVRALPH
Fireman
5431 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 6:29:21 PM
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| Yesterday I reported a problem with block occupancy lamp 1321. I had a chance to diagnose and fix it today. The detector was reporting block occupied, but the input on the computer screen was not returning a 1 for block occupied. I traced the wire from the detector output to the input pin on the SMINI. Sure enough, the wire had broken. I removed the pin from the harness and mad a new pin connection and all is well. |
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conrailbill
Section Hand
59 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 8:45:16 PM
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Ralph, regarding sound, I could design a small piece of code to add to the program to emulate the "relay chatter" using the Basic command called SOUND, and your computer's speaker. The SOUND command allows one to send to the speaker a specific frequency for a specific length of time. I played around with it a little bit yesterday and can probably come up with a method to add it to the existing code until such time as you can obtain sound cards and an interface circuit. It might not sound exactly like relays, but I think we can give your dispatchers enough realism added to the CODE and INDICATOR lamps.
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LVRALPH
Fireman
5431 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 05:51:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by conrailbill
Ralph, regarding sound, I could design a small piece of code to add to the program to emulate the "relay chatter" using the Basic command called SOUND, and your computer's speaker. The SOUND command allows one to send to the speaker a specific frequency for a specific length of time. I played around with it a little bit yesterday and can probably come up with a method to add it to the existing code until such time as you can obtain sound cards and an interface circuit. It might not sound exactly like relays, but I think we can give your dispatchers enough realism added to the CODE and INDICATOR lamps.
Bill, that would be great! I'm still searching for a circuit with a sound chip and how to get the sounds into the chip. I forgot about the computers speaker.
I hope to stop at RS today and get some type of covers for the plate I have to implement the code and indication lamps. I will have off Wed so I plan on working on this all day. I got the yard work all done yesterday.
On a separate note, I ordered the parts for equipping the cars with resistors. I forgot before we run, I really need to get a lot of the fleet equipped, or the dispatcher is going to get a lot of false occupancy states. That shoud not be too hard. But the cost of the Silver conducting pen has risen to $ 42 dollars! |
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Signaling my model railroad
typical CMRI Input connections.JPG
typical CMRI Output connections.JPG