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dallas_m
Fireman
USA
3137 Posts |
 Posted - 01/03/2012 : 4:13:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sgtbob
Dallas, You're doing a fantastic job as usual, and I may be wrong here, but there is a detail
that is clashing at me like fingernails on a blackboard.[:-banghead]
The corbel, over siding, hits me as wrong, they are usually over wide top boards, supporting,
or being part of a cornice.[:-angel]
Hi Bob -- THANKS for speaking up! Especially while things are in the "playing around" stage for that element. I'm happy to report that:
(a) You're absolutely right and ...
(b) I had no intentions of putting the corbels there ...
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quote:
Originally posted by sgtbob
I don't know if I said that right. What I mean is that I think your siding should end below the
corbels. and the space between the corbels should be wide plain board or boards.
Yup! See that big open space without any siding near the top? That's where the cornice, trim boards and corbels will go. I'm currently working on the thin little trim boards that will separate the siding from the cornice work.
So, why the heck was I showing the preliminary corbel over top of the siding? Easy, if I play with it in that open space, it falls down between the studs and under the siding, and I have to turn the whole thing over and shake it out! [:-shake] 
Now, bear with me for a moment ... with all that said, I'm drawing a lot from this prototype ... and here, the siding does run all the way up to the top trim and sits underneath the corbels and those trimmed decorative panels. So, there certainly is at least one prototype for doing it that way!
BUT ... I'm planning to do it in the "more typical" or "expected" way that you describe for a couple of reasons:
1) There's a certain roughness to my whittled-coffee stir siding boards, which I really like ... but the corbels and decorative trim wouldn't sit really flat over those, and I think it would end up looking crappy ...
2) I'm planning to use multi-color paint work up in the cornice ... which is often seen in this area ... and using separate boards will allow me to build everything up in a way that looks nice & tidy and easy to mask/separate the desired colors.
So, in case that last bit confused things ... THANKS AGAIN ... the way that you suggested is probably more typical ... and the approach that I'm planning to take.
I started painting boards for the "trim between siding and cornice detail" marked in the photo above. I'll install those above the green siding on my model and then build up the cornice detail in the fashion you've suggested.
Even though this prototype says you're wrong, I think you're right and I'm going with you on this one!  |
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dallas_m
Fireman
USA
3137 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 4:31:57 PM
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PS -- On-going request:
Please do NOT assume that I know what I'm doing! [:-blindfold]
Y'all have saved me a lot of grief many times ... and helped to make all sorts of improvements along the way ... so please continue to "speak up" if anything looks weird, out-of-place, just-plain-wrong or even just "curious" in a strange way, etc.
I really appreciate the discussion of these elements ... try to improve things where I can and feel on-going gratitude for your participation and help! (In the foregoing discussion, SgtBob pointed out something weird ... and I was already thinking the same way ... but that could have saved a lot of headache if that hadn't been the case. So, please keep it up!) [:-thumbu] |
Edited by - dallas_m on 01/03/2012 4:33:49 PM |
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TRAINS1941
Fireman
USA
4951 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 5:52:05 PM
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Dallas
A beautiful detail. Just excellent work.
Jerry |
Jerry
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are. |
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BigLars
Fireman
USA
7481 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 6:26:06 PM
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Dallas,
I think the picture you are showing of the prototype structure is a trick of yours. Look at the nail holes... too large, the window on the front is bent in and the corner of the structure is dinged. I want to see a different angle of that building to insure you are not tricking us by using a picture of one of your o scale builds you pulled out of a box. [:-angel] |
Edited by - BigLars on 01/03/2012 6:27:16 PM |
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BigLars
Fireman
USA
7481 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 6:28:03 PM
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| Oh and by the way some mighty fine modeling going on here. |
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dallas_m
Fireman
USA
3137 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 7:51:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BigLars
Dallas,
I think the picture you are showing of the prototype structure is a trick of yours. Look at the nail holes... too large, the window on the front is bent in and the corner of the structure is dinged. I want to see a different angle of that building to insure you are not tricking us by using a picture of one of your o scale builds you pulled out of a box. [:-angel]
Yup, it's all fake! Okay, actually ... when I was stalled on the project and trying to figure out where to go with it, I did a bunch of surfing and stumbled across this "beauty." If you do an image search for the "old drugstore St. Augustine" you'll find this one ... and there are enough large, high-rez pictures out there to see a lot of the detail nice and close. Some of the siding and dilapidated trim have a very "Tom Yorke" stylized appearance. The structure is a modelers dream ... simple, with lots of interesting detail. And, quite similar in proportion to what I had already started ... so this became a sort of template for the second-story makeover. |
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dallas_m
Fireman
USA
3137 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 8:16:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BigLars
I want to see a different angle of that building to insure you are not tricking us by using a picture of one of your o scale builds you pulled out of a box. [:-angel]
Oops! I missed the part about a "different angle" ... photo above shows the N scale version that I built years ago, before I needed 5 different pairs of glasses to see what I was doing. (Just kidding about the N scale business ... wish I were kidding about the glasses.) [:-disguise] |
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BigLars
Fireman
USA
7481 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 8:17:14 PM
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| As my buddy from Scarborough said in "Wayne's World" I'm not worthy. |
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elwoodblues
Fireman
Canada
4960 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 12:22:24 AM
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Well looking at all the pictures you are using as I guide I only have this to say, you used way to many nails on your version so I'm taking to off the built like the prototype list.
Can't wait to see how the top turns out, the second floor is looking fantastic already.
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Ron Newby
General Manager
Clearwater Valley Railway Co.
http://www.cvry.ca |
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sgtbob
Fireman
USA
1219 Posts |
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CN6401
Crew Chief
Canada
946 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 11:38:16 AM
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Hey Larry,
That Drugstore almost looks like the Red Onion Saloon in Skagway Alaska.
Dallas,
I love the look of that proto building, you're doing a fine job with yours.
Ralph |
Growing old is mandatory . . . growing up is optional
 ©
A Touch of Yesterday©..............Weathered Rail Cars. |
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Frederic Testard
Engineer
France
16524 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 12:56:29 PM
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It's good to follow your progress on this project, Dallas. The prototype building is extremely attractive.
I can't remember if you've described the making of the corbels. I seem to remember an "industrial" setup to make many in just one operation, but I'm not sure it was on this building. It interests me for a certain project that I have... |
Frederic Testard |
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dallas_m
Fireman
USA
3137 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 1:18:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Frederic Testard
I can't remember if you've described the making of the corbels. I seem to remember an "industrial" setup to make many in just one operation, but I'm not sure it was on this building. It interests me for a certain project that I have...
Hi Frederic --
No description on the corbels posted yet. The first one shown was just a "quick test" to see if I could carve curves into the basswood without splitting it. I just drew some curves on a piece of wood, started carving and then sanded with a rounded sanding stick -- took about 3 minutes (literally) to make that piece.
The corbels on the prototype shown have a slightly more ornate shape, and they're a little thinner. I'll do another "test carve" in basswood and/or styrene ... if that works well, I'll cast the needed quantity in resin. Or ... maybe just contact Dave at VectorCut to have a bunch of them laser cut. I've had him do several custom jobs and find the cost quite reasonable.
Or ... draw the desired shape ... copy it multiple times on the computer ... print & paste to wood, laserboard or styrene with some removable glue (like kid's glue sticks) ... and carve a bunch ...
Haven't decided that yet ... but last night, I managed to install the two other walls and some interior bracing to turn the second story into a "box" with four walls ... somehow, all progress feels good ... even the boring stuff! |
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mark_dalrymple
Crew Chief
New Zealand
526 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 2:36:16 PM
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Looking fantastic Dallas!
I would like to concur with Bob. I painted our old cottage villa a few years ago and the timber behind the eve brackets was indeed one piece. I cut all the eve brackets (as well as rectangles and dimonds) with a scroll saw - but that was 1:1 scale! It was a lot of work (the villa was a workers cottage, and as such had no decoration) but worked wonders on the appearance of the house when all painted up in different colours.
Also, regards the number of nails in the weather boards. Its been my experience that evrey face nail (normally placed about an inch up from the bottom of each board) also 'blind nails' the top of the board below it, and so in fact each board has two nails. The nails they used on our old villa had enormous heads on them, and I think if they were put in above the top of the board below, they would very likely split the board. I'll have a look next time I see an old weather board, but from memory I believe the bevel is quite significant - 2" or so.
Looking foward to your continued progress on this impressive build,
Cheers, Mark. |
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dallas_m
Fireman
USA
3137 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2012 : 2:47:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ensign
I see you kept the double nail pattern after all. I think it looks better then the single nail in the middle of the board anyways.
Yeah, I figured that I wouldn't have to walk far to find examples done "ye olde ham-fisted way" with incorrect nailing ... and I didn't. Fellow modeler Bill Gill sent me photos from a couple of old garages near his home in New England. While I fully agree that Nick has described the "correct" and/or "preferred" way of doing this, my experience with (loosely) studying old structures on this side of the pond leads me to believe that many more than a few were built by less-skilled and/or less-knowledgeable "carpenters" ...
(And, I certainly appreciate Nick's input because I really and/or obviously didn't know that ... and it might come in handy if I decide to build a structure that represents the work of a skilled carpenter. In this case, I'm going for more of a working-class area where a "make do" attitude would be more prevalent. This will become even more apparent on the actual "storefront" portion of the building, where the owner may have well done the "handyman renovation" work!)
Bill's photos also show a nice variation in texture on the old novelty siding boards ... from relatively smooth to rather rough grain with varying degrees of weathering. Photo above closely matches what I had in mind when starting on the siding -- even though I was going from memory/impressions rather specific photos. Thanks again for the pix, Bill! |
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Chambers Gas & Oil -- structure build
