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nhguy
Fireman

USA
4241 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2012 :  04:59:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit nhguy's Homepage  Send nhguy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Matt,Mark,Harsco,

I can see the difference between the bulb temperature and it is dramatic. I was probably looking at the low Kevin range CFL's on other layouts because they are noticeably more yellow than the ones on the left. I have a three way CFL in one of my living room lamps that is totally yellow. I hate it. So now I will go looking for the higher kelvin temperature range lights for an improvement.You can really tell the difference with the photos and the valance in place.

To give you an idea of how important lighting is, we painted our kitchen a light sage green. We then added a new 5 foot wood light fixture with 'daylight' bulbs. When we turned on the light for the first time the room turned lime green! We both were aghast at the pukey color it turned. I immediately went down to my basement and took out a couple of Kitchen daylight bulbs and installed those. Now the wall color was right. I exchanged those other bulbs with the kitchen daylights which turned out to be 5K. The yellow looking ones were 3500's

So I like the result you get with the 5000K CFL's. I may purchase a few to give them a try.

Bill Shanaman
Superintendent, Chief Track Cleaner,
New Haven RR in the 1948 to 1952 era
PMRA President 2014-15, OpSIG Member
NCE User Since 1999
Sugar City, Colorado
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MarkF
Engineer

USA
10471 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2012 :  10:03:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit MarkF's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You know Bill, I used to hate what I called the 'flourescent' color. I always liked the warmer 'incandescent' colors we become used to in the rest of our house. So when Matt began this project, he called me over to his house to see the lighting and experiment with him. When I first walked in, my first comment was that I liked the 'warmer' lighting, which turned out to be the 3500K. But the more I sat there and compared it to the other bulbs, the 5000K, I soon realized that the 'natural daylight' color (5000K) was more realistic. By the end of the night, there was no discussion to be had - he and I both agreed the natural daylight is the way to go!

Now you bring up another intersting point that even I'm guilty off (or at least was). We should use the same lighting at our workbench that we use on our layouts or dioramas. I had a regular incandescent bulb in the light on my workbench, thinking this was ok. Again, I like the 'atmosphere' of the warmer bulb in the rest of my house, but at the workbench we must think of the colors as seen on the layout/diorama, or what we do at the workbench will look different on the layout, kind of like your kitchen!

Mark

See my homepage at http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/
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Tabooma County Rwy
Fireman

USA
4393 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2012 :  11:57:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mark, you are right on regarding using the same lighting at the workbench. It does make a difference.

I agree with you with regards to liking the "warmer" incandescent type bulbs in the rest of the house - seems more inviting and pleasing; even comforting. So we use the 3500 CFL's in table and floor lamps now, but for my reading light over my chair, I use a 5000K CFL. Up here in the Pacific Northwest, where we don't see the sun for extended periods, sitting under the "daylight" reading lamp actually is beneficial - so "they" say. Supposedly more vitamin D and my disposition and mood improves (but don't ask my wife...<grin>)

Al Carter
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pcmatt
Engine Wiper

USA
186 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2012 :  7:46:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PEIR

Its too bad that the water problem has put a halt on construction but better to find out before the layout was finished. I may of missed it but do you have a list of industries in mind for the layout?


PEIR, thanks for the reply. Kind of stuck right now with contractors. They come out for the 1st estimate, e-mail it but are never seen or heard from again. The problem is I only need 2 walls done and they're gunning for a job that would include the full basement which I don't need. Must be nice to be able to turn down work(???).

The list of industries planned for the layout are as follows (at some point I will have a diagram):
-coming out of staging on what Harsco has labeled the "Roll-off" branch, the staging level: Rush Run Coal Dock (N&W), East Ohio Sand & Supply, Steubenville Pottery, Sinclair Refining, Federal Paperboard.
-Coming off the helix from the "south" into Mingo Yard: Gilchrist & Sons, McCurdy & Co. Brilliant Sand and American Welded Tube
-From Mingo Yard around the layout back to the helix: Wheeling Pitt Steel (South Plant), W-P Refractory Warehouse, W-P Car Repair Shop, Mingo Yard service track, Ohio Nut & Washer, Slag Pit/Aggregate Plant.
then back into the helix up to the top level.
-coming out of the helix into Steubenville: Coke Works(modeler's license), Coke By-products plant (Modeler's license), Jefferson Iron & Metal(scrapyard), Guy Johnston Lumber, Bates Building Materials, Louis Berkmann & Co., A&P Warehouse, Chicago Wallpaper, Central Sewer & Pipe, Ohio Foundry & Mfg, Steel Service Corp, Armour, team track and finally the Wheeling-Pitt (North Plant).

Now I am following a very loose version of the area. The area is very interesting and unfortunately, I don't have the real estate to even come close to it. Jefferson County was in a state of decline during the PC and many of the industries, while they existed during the PRR were either gone or darn close to it during the PC. Now I know that my PRR friends will argue that this is more than enough reason to go back to the PRR, sorry guys!!! LOL. The Steubenville area was served by two PRR lines, as well as the N&W. The PRR lines were the River Branch out of Conway and it served the Yellow Creek area and the steel mills. Locals were run out of Conway in either direction to serve Mingo, Weirton, Scully...and vice-versa. The Panhandle Division, which Mingo Yard was a part of, served the industries in Steubenville before heading into Weirton and Pittsburgh while bypassing Conway altogether. During my era, much of the through traffic was being routed through Conway and off the Panhandle. There were a handful of through-trains or extras and the National Limited on Amtrak used the line as well. Hmmmm? Kaslo SDP-40F's? I have pics of those units on the Panhandle-[:-eyebrows] On my layout, I'm blending the two lines under modeler's license. For example, the Coke Works was actually across the Ohio River in Follansbee, W.Va. and had a private (W-P owned) RR bridge that went right into the high line of the mill. That would've been awesome to model. Only if my wife would give up the remainder of the basement.[:-idea] But as she states, I have a better chance on hitting the lottery. Now the steel mills will be a challenge but with the help from my friends, think it can be pulled off. The South Plant will be mostly modeled as flats and backdrop pics. However, it will have a large open hearth plant (that Harsco has been foaming at the mouth to get me to build it) and some of the support structures around that operation. The North Plant on the upper level, will have the blast furnace as it's main building. Together they will generate much of the traffic on the layout and have endless operational possibilities.

I'm sure it will upset the diehards and rivet counters, but it's my layout and you know the rest....thanks again for dropping a line.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26375
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pcmatt
Engine Wiper

USA
186 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2012 :  7:56:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill, Al & Mark,

I had the same thing happen here with the paint in the house and my wife. I mistakenly bought the 5000K CFL's for our family room which is painted some shade of orange-yellow with a burgundy accent wall. It actually looks much better than it sounds, anyways, the blue-white tint totally threw the tones off and my spouse's mood along with it. I ended up installing 2200K lamps in there as she didn't even like the 3500K.

Bill, let us know how you make out with your experiment with the 5000K's. Keep in mind, as an option, that Home Depot has a 6500K bulb available online as well. It wasn't available in the stores locally in Southern NJ or in Philadelphia. My personal choice was not to add the costs of shipping to these since I will be buying them in piecemeal over the next 2 months.

Mark and I actually tested the 2200K bulbs also. Those were immediately out of the equation for us. And yes Mark brings up a very good point with the workbench. Now if I only had one,[:-banghead].

Thanks for reading along guys.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26375
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Steam Nut
Fireman

USA
1454 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  06:57:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sounds like its time for another Steam Nut slide out work bench!
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Red P
Crew Chief

USA
978 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  11:27:33 AM  Show Profile  Send Red P a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I have been following this topic with interest. I have to admit I have not paid much attention to CFLs before. It certainly is worth looking in to.
Im just kinda concerned about the heat issue.
P

http://pcpanhandle.shutterfly.com/
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MarkF
Engineer

USA
10471 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  4:57:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit MarkF's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There really isn't a heat issue to speak of. They burn cooler than a standard incandecant bulb. I mean I wouldn't recommend mounting them against a piece of wood. Definitely allow room for air to circulate. Aside from that, and after looking at all the options, this particular option was my favorite due to cost of initial purchase, impact on my monthly bill, options as to color of light, ease of installation and the end result - bright even light.

Mark

See my homepage at http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/
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pcmatt
Engine Wiper

USA
186 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  7:37:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MarkF

There really isn't a heat issue to speak of. They burn cooler than a standard incandecant bulb. I mean I wouldn't recommend mounting them against a piece of wood. Definitely allow room for air to circulate. Aside from that, and after looking at all the options, this particular option was my favorite due to cost of initial purchase, impact on my monthly bill, options as to color of light, ease of installation and the end result - bright even light.



Great explanation Mark. They do throw some heat off but nothing like a traditional bulb. They're not as sexy as the LED's but I really don't think there's an option out there for around $2 a foot and easy on the monthly electric bill. The candelabra style saves some much needed space too under the layout. Give'em a try, I think you'll be impressed with them. Let us know what you think after trying them.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26375
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pcmatt
Engine Wiper

USA
186 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  7:40:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steam Nut

Sounds like its time for another Steam Nut slide out work bench!



Steam-don't know what I'd do without you!!! Thanks again for everything. Only thing I have to determine is where to put it.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26375
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PEIR
Section Hand

Canada
81 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2012 :  1:01:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Too bad you can't get a contractor in to do the job that you want. Hopefully you will find someone reliable to get the room back together soon.

I wish I had the room to model a fraction of what you have listed for industries. They should keep a good sized crew busy for a few hours during a operating session.
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MarkF
Engineer

USA
10471 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2012 :  09:55:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit MarkF's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pcmatt


I'm sure it will upset the diehards and rivet counters, but it's my layout and you know the rest....thanks again for dropping a line.


I don't think so Matt. Yes, you are modeling a large area on your layout, but your layout isn't exactly small and you've focused on a specific area to model. So many will model huge mainlines, trying to represent miles and miles of railroad. Your area is more focused, kind of like what Harsco has done. Sure, many of the industries will have to be 'scaled down' to fit on the layout, but I'm sure you will do them justice.

Mark

See my homepage at http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/
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nhguy
Fireman

USA
4241 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2012 :  1:16:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit nhguy's Homepage  Send nhguy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
You know it is your railroad. You can continue routing traffic over the line, you can keep open the industries to generate traffic and you can fix what the PC failed to do. Keep revenue coming in for YOUR railroad. At least in theory it works

There hasn't been a regularly scheduled passenger train on the Valley branch I model since 1938. I model 1951 (or there abouts) and have 4 commuter trains a day including a mail and milk train combo. Since I like both those aspects of railroading I included them. I also use the Valley branch as a very heavily traveled main line and it has worked well. It will continue to do so until the lower level becomes totally operational. So it's your railroad. Do with it as you wish. Just because you model a 'specific' era doesn't mean you have to copy what exactly happened on the line to a T. If the rivet counters (of which I used to be one) don't like it, don't show up to run it or build go your own layout is what I tell them. Of course out here on the eastern plains of Colorado there aren't many 'easterners' that know about eastern railroads let alone my New Haven. So run your PC like you want.

Bill Shanaman
Superintendent, Chief Track Cleaner,
New Haven RR in the 1948 to 1952 era
PMRA President 2014-15, OpSIG Member
NCE User Since 1999
Sugar City, Colorado

Edited by - nhguy on 02/12/2012 1:25:27 PM
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Harsco
Fireman

USA
1202 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2012 :  2:19:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Echoing Bill's sentiments, I found myself trying to strike a mythical balance point between being 100% prototypical and being operationally interesting; sometimes reality isn't quite as interesting or exciting as we'd like it to be. In the real world, steel mills existed to manufacture product and make a profit, not to entertain, which is what we would like them to do. They didn't do things because it was cool, but because it made sense. Trying to come up with enough traffic density, movement, and variation on a model railroad to make things interesting and satisfying for the crew can be daunting without having the ability to "push" the reality envelope a little. In the early stages of planning the HTRR operational scheme, it became quickly apparent that strict adherence to prototype practices and operations would be as exciting as watching paint dry....the traffic density and customer base simply couldn't justify an hours worth of prototypical operation, much less keep a bunch of adult men occupied.

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sjconrail
Engine Wiper

USA
166 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2012 :  6:49:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit sjconrail's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Matt,

I hear you on both accounts. I've been searching for a plumber for a shower installation and no one seems to want to return my calls. I feel like I'm on a black-list or something.

As for the railroad, I've been drawn to an area on Conrail that was pretty much a race-track for freights (over 60/day) but had only 2 or 3 real good switching areas on it plus another area that would take up the basement to do it justice (Harrisburg through Reading). I've come to the conclusion I either need to freelance or scale the prototype down quite a bit to get decent operations on whatever the layout becomes,

Phil

http://www.conrailharrisburgline.org

http://www.thecrhs.org
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