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pcmatt
Engine Wiper
USA
181 Posts |
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pcmatt
Engine Wiper
USA
181 Posts |
 Posted - 02/04/2012 : 11:30:41 PM
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Just an update on the progress of lighting the layout. I have been playing around with different options in my head for sometime now and finally came to a decision on how I will proceed with the layout. Since my last update, I've been sharing my ideas with Mark and demonstrated the mock-up as seen in the last update. I worked with him on determining what's the best available light (locally) and optimum spacing between each light as I go around the layout. One thing is certain, I will be repainting the backdrop to enhance the "sky." What's up now has got to go.
I weighed several different options from tubes to the LED's ($$$$) and settled on using the newer type of mini-base CFL's. This method will only cost me approximately $16 for every 8' of layout.
The pic below show's the candelabra base CFL versus the regular base CFL. What sold me was the real estate they save under the layout. The mini's come in at 4-1/2" in length and 2" in diameter. The regular size is 6-1/2" in length and roughly 2-1/4" in diameter. That 2" saved per bulb is significant considering everything else that will eventually be there with them (wiring, switch machines, brackets...). The picture below demonstrates the bulbs side-by-side. I apologize for the mini-pic, for whatever reason, the websizer crunched it more than I wanted, but I'm sure it's something I'm doing.
Here's the lights, which were purchased from Lowe's. They are made by Utilitech, #0346992-Natural Daylight, 13watts(60 watt equivalent), 800 lumens with a 5000' Kelvin rating. Again, my apologies for the small pic. I settled on these after weighing three different Kelvin rated bulbs, all of which were lower than this. There is a 6500 rated bulb but only through on-line. Each four pack runs rougly $15 or $3.75 a bulb. To ease the pain of a bulk purchase, I plan to buy 2 packs every 2 weeks. So far, I have 24 bulbs in place with another 40 to go.
Here's the candelabra sockets. Typically, these can be found in Lowe's or Home Depot in the $3.50 to $4 each range. Additionally, the brackets on their sockets are not removable. I found a supplier on eBay that sells 40 of them for $10. That's $0.25 each!!! Plus, the collars slide right off with a little elbow grease. The socket on the left is how they come and the one on the right is with the collar removed. They are rated at 75W/125V.
I used suitcase(aka tap) connectors to connect the the lights to the power bus and used 1/2" one-hole metal straps to secure them to the underside. There is a 1x3 secured to the ceiling to hold the fascia for the top level in which these are directly secured to. On the middle level, I cut small 2" blocks out of some scrap 1x's to give the need spacing from the benchwork above.
Here's a pic of one installed on the underside of the layout.
This picture below is one of the tests that Mark and I ran when he was over. On the left, the 5000 Kelvin light and on the right is the 3500 Kelvin light. You can see a slight difference but in person, the difference is quite significant. The light on the right is too "yellow" for my liking and the right really makes the layout pop imho.
Here's a shot of the layout, top and bottom with the 5000K lights installed. I will be going back to reposition some of the lights in the corners to address the slight shadows. Most likely will have to add an additional light, but that's feasible to do with this method.
Next steps are getting the fascia painted black, installed and then paint the ceiling in the layout room black as well to make the layout really standout. I will also be repainting the walls a different shade of blue.
Thanks for taking the time to read along. Look forward to any suggestions, hints and/or advice. Also, any clues on getting the websizer to produce the correct size photo. I've never had this problem and it's probably something simple I'm overlooking. Thanks again. |
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26375 |
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nhguy
Fireman
USA
3664 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 02:03:38 AM
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| Looks like a nice solution. I have read and seen lighting installations and they recommend every 24". Is that your spacing? I have under deck lighting I have to install and wire up but I opted for regular standard screw type bases with 15 watt bulbs. Most CFL's are too yellow to my eyes. |
Bill Shanaman
Superintendent, New Haven RR in the 1948 to 1952 era
PMRA President 2013-14, OpSIG Member
NCE User Since 1999
Sugar City, Colorado |
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 07:44:35 AM
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| Excellent solution, Matt...just saw the results last evening on the Northern Division and was very impressed with the overall level of saturation and brightness... |
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Grubes
Engine Wiper
USA
353 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 10:06:49 AM
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Looks good Matt and I like your selection of 5000K. Even in your pictures the yellow hue is evident and the blue/white look is much more attractive.
Dave |
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MarkF
Engineer
USA
9270 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 11:26:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nhguy
Looks like a nice solution. I have read and seen lighting installations and they recommend every 24". Is that your spacing? I have under deck lighting I have to install and wire up but I opted for regular standard screw type bases with 15 watt bulbs. Most CFL's are too yellow to my eyes.
Bill, the CFL's now come in a variety of 'color's, or temperatures. Matt had purchased a couple of different ones so that we could experiment, and after futzing around with them, we both decided that the Natural Daylight (5000K) was the way to go. I was totally sold on this idea and just began installing it on my layout last night. |
Mark
See my homepage at http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/
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pcmatt
Engine Wiper
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 11:41:02 AM
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Bill, Dave & Rick, thanks for the comments.
Bill-good catch on that missing detail. After playing around with the spacing between 16"-24", I settled on 24" between the lights. This worked out perfectly on the straight runs. I only noticed a slight issue in the corners for 2 related reasons, my corners are relatively deep and are not coved. This tends to leave some very slight shadowing depending on the angle. When Mark was over, we added a 3rd light to one of the corners and seemed to solve the problem. The only other catch was to make sure the light is pointed towards the wall and not to run them parallel with the benchwork. Doing this gave more of an even distribution of the light onto the layout.
My only issue left to address is the area of Mingo Yard. The above layout lighting only covers 14" of the 30" of Mingo. So I need to come up with an idea to illuminate the front 16" of Mingo for a run of about 16'. Curious if anyone has any ideas that they've used in these situations.
I had the same concerns around any yellow hues of these bulbs, but found the 5000K bulbs give off more of a blue/white that really complements the layout. The lower the Kelvin, the more yellow the bulb. I was pleasantly surprised by these 5K bulbs. Nice break too that they're readily available at Lowe's. Just hope I never break one. |
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26375 |
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pcmatt
Engine Wiper
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 11:52:46 AM
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| Mark, Thanks again for your time in working with me to hammer out the details with the lighting. Sorry I missed out on getting over last night. If I didn't have the meeting this coming week, I may have been able to pull off a 2nd night. Glad to hear it's looking good on the Northern Division. Looking forward to the progress on the thread. |
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26375 |
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Tabooma County Rwy
Fireman
USA
4192 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 12:28:08 PM
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Matt,
I did something very similar on my last layout, to light the lower level (which I added after the upper level was complete - not the recommended progression of construction!!!). Anyway, I used regular CFL bulbs (not candelabra), 40 watt (5000K) and spaced them every 13-15". In my corners, which were a little deeper (like yours), I upped the wattage to 60 watts. My "straight" benchwork was only 15" deep, I might add.
I didn't use the suitcase connectors, but opted for extension cord type wire (14AWG, with ground), which I ran to shallow blue plastic boxes and from them, I ran the black and white wires out to the sockets, very similar to the method you used. I felt it gave pretty darn good results, and was the only solution I could think of to light the lower level by navigating around switch machines and the like on the underside of the upper level.
One thing: one of my friends really freaked out about the fact that I had that 120v wiring running around under my layout, along with the standard low voltage wiring. He really didn't like that a bit!
Your results are very nice!
Al Carter
Mount Vernon, WA |
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 12:48:25 PM
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As Matt stated, the lower the Kelvin, the more "yellow" the light, which may not be a bad thing depending on what effect you're trying to achieve. A bright, higher Kelvin white is a good representation of "high noon" lighting, when the sun is at its highest and brightest, while a cooler Kelvin is yellow, representative of early or late day, lower sun positioning.
Matt: an idea for your Mingo situation might be to mount directional LED "spots" on the ceiling above the yard, aimed directly downward on the affected section...these might be bright enough to match the "high noon" lighting in your levels. Another variation would be to use low voltage halogens, but I suspect that they will probably be too yellow compared to the rest of the layout. |
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pcmatt
Engine Wiper
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 6:19:21 PM
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Al-Thanks for checking out the thread, great to hear from you. I appreciate your positive comments and sharing your experiences with these types of bulbs. Sounds like our layouts have some similarities. I'm right there with you on adding the lighting after the benchwork was installed above. Planning is everything, right? Lol. Well, we can at least laugh about it now. Mark, who has been a huge help through this did it correctly with regards to the order of progression on his Northern Division (http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26165).
Also, thanks for the tip with the corners. Unfortunately, for me, I think I am at the current limit for the candelabra style bulb/socket. If I was using the regular socket, I'd have some options. The bulbs that I am using are rated at the 60W equivalent. I definitely will keep an eye the availability of these bulbs in a higher wattage with the same Kelvin rating.
One thing I am realizing as I go around the layout installing the bulbs is that I have to remember to look below before drilling for feeders, switches, Tortoise linkage... Not the type of bulb to drive a drill bit through. I'll be good for at least one of those mistakes.
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http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26375 |
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pcmatt
Engine Wiper
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 8:01:04 PM
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Rick-thanks for explaining the Kelvin scale. I think that's pretty much got it covered.
Thanks too for the tips to handle lighting the front of Mingo Yard. I'll catch up with you offline to pick your brain about these options. Thanks again for your help with the layout. |
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26375 |
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pcmatt
Engine Wiper
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 8:44:02 PM
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Here's the pictures in a larger size. Takes us Penn Central guys a little longer to figure out how to hit the reset button. Sorry about the earlier pics, not putting them all back up just the bulbs, and the layout test shots that Mark and I did. The larger pics will help in showing the results.
The Utilitech Bulbs
The 5000K vs 3500K bulbs without the valence in place. Here you'll see 4 bulbs, the 2 on the left are the 5000K (the ones that are going to be used) and the 2 on the right are the 3500K. Here you can almost see exactly where the breakpoint for each is.
Same pic as above but with valence mock up in place.
Corner look with all 5000K bulbs. In the corner you can see the slight shadowing from the blast furnace on the wall. However, if you look at the lower level, despite no structure in place, the extra bulb was installed and the lighting is more even. I may need to go back and move it an inch either way to really balance it.
Thanks again for reading the thread. |
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26375 |
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PEIR
Section Hand
Canada
59 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 9:03:12 PM
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| Its too bad that the water problem has put a halt on construction but better to find out before the layout was finished. I may of missed it but do you have a list of industries in mind for the layout? |
Working on a maritime Railnet. |
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MarkF
Engineer
USA
9270 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2012 : 12:32:56 AM
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| Matt, the lighting looks great! It does take some experimenting to get it right, especially in the corners. I'm finding that out on my layout as well. Fortunately, it's not too difficult to simply tap in and install a light where needed. |
Mark
See my homepage at http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/
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New Layout-Penn Central Era
