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hon3_rr
Fireman

USA
7237 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2009 :  2:03:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Frederic. Your thoughts are exactly what I was orig. thinking, but wanted to explore possible options, which is still open for comments BTW.

Doing the siding to the second level, and thought I'd try to post a couple of 'in progress' shots.

The first picture shows two items. First, the gate and lift assembly has been colored with a heavy (paint color) wash of Vallejo Violet Red, paint number 812 from the Model Color line. This was was achieved by a 1:1 paint-to-water dilution (almost always used with these paints) with additional brush load of water prior to dipping into the paint.

The second item shown in this picture is the first few boards going up on the second level. There will be some trimming needed once the conveyor housing is added, so the boards will be trimmed as needed. The angle of the brace is the angle of the conveyor housing between the two buldings going over this tailings bin.

The second picture shows from the back the 2x8's edge glued and tacked to the supports. These three boards appear lighter in color.

For those who may not do a lot of edge gluing, I use yellow carpenters glue applied to the edge of the board with a round toothpick. By dipping just the point of the toothpick into the glue, just a small drop of glue will be on the end. The toothpick is then drawn down the board edge, leaving a thin bead of glue. The toothpick is then layed almost flat on the board edge and pulled toward one end of the board while turning the toothpick towards the inside (non-visible) part of the structure. The board is quickly set in place as the very thin film of glue will dry quickly for forming a bond. I also keep a small stiff brush and some clean distilled water handy to scrub any excess glue from the viewing face of the structure. I may also use a single edge razor or No.11 blade point to remove excess glue. I must note however, by using the above glue application technique, most of the time any minute excess glue squeezed out from between the boards is so little, that it drys clear and is not even visible in pictures, much less from a normal viewing distance, and requires no removal.

The final picture shows what the inside of the bin looks like at this stage. Sorry for the funny angles, but was necessary to get light into the bin... and the angles make the bin and bin frame appear skewed, which is not the case.

As always, all comments are welcome.






-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.
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hon3_rr
Fireman

USA
7237 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2009 :  2:27:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And since I can't get true colors taking pictures indoors, took the bin outdoors for a couple of quick shots showing the chute gate and lift assembly at this stage of painting.




-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.
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Frederic Testard
Engineer

France
17652 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2009 :  7:03:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kris, I would add two more NBWs in the location shown below.
Also, assuming that what I see has the correct colour, it seems that the door and mechanism rust is too red (compare to the pic of the real door in page 14 of this topic). I'd try to cover it with something like burnt umber and then adding on the wet paint a mix of orange and dark brown pastels.
Finally, why not installing the galvanized metal sheet above the door featured in the prototype photo of page 14? That would add some interest, in particular due to the colour change.

EDIT : the left arrow should end at the intersection between the horizontal arm and the vertical metal strap.



Edited by - Frederic Testard on 12/17/2009 7:05:15 PM
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hon3_rr
Fireman

USA
7237 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2009 :  7:16:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Frederic. I'm still coloring the lift bar assembly, and I'm waiting for this wash to dry prior to adding the next wash which is leaning more towards a violet color. I have at least 2 more, probably 3, washes to go as well as a light A&I application and then an some chalk and dust powder. I just really wanted to show a true picture of the colors achieved so far using the Vallejo paints which I did not make clear in my earlier post.

As far as the N-B-W application goes, I concur with you about the additions. I'll add the N-B-W's once the lift bar assembly is glued in place so when I drill the styrene the sprue will line up correctly. Right now the assembly is just sitting in place to have it's picture taken.

As far as the galvanized metal sheet above the door, I'm having mixed thoughts. I have been considering how to color the styrene or paper which I would use, but I'm leaning towards styrene. I think that the metal sheet would break up the front of the ore bin some, but it may also make it look to busy next to the main ore bin/chutes, which I want to be the focus of the structure set.

-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 12/17/2009 7:30:15 PM
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hon3_rr
Fireman

USA
7237 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2009 :  7:34:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have also been considering using a 'glaze' in the final wash to see if the Vallejo glaze medium will make the chute/lift assembly look more like metal. I've not been successful in looking at the military guys sites in finding out how to use the glaze (glaze, not gloss medium), so if anyone has any knowledge of information or experience using the glaze, please let me know. Thanks in advance.

-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 12/17/2009 7:35:36 PM
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deemery
Fireman

USA
8500 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  09:03:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
By accident, I ended up with a super metal paint. I had a bottle of 'gunmetal' craft paint and put some BB's in it. After a couple of years, the BB's started to rust. That makes a great base coat for applying rust-colored chalks, etc.

What you might want to try is a wash of a metallic paint, followed by some rust colored chalks.

dave

Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)
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hon3_rr
Fireman

USA
7237 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  10:10:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Dave. The Vallejo paints, even the metallic line, dry with to a nice matte finish. For metals however, it does remove that subtle 'metal' reflection. Vallejo has two products, a 'metalizer' and a 'glaze' in addition to the 'gloss' coating which we are used to. I suspect, but don't know as a fact, that the 'metalizer' and 'glaze' are similar in results. The difference between the two products are, from what I can tell, is that metalizer is to be added to the paint as the paint is applied where the glaze is an after coat, much like a 'gloss' product.

BTW, I enjoyed your comments on the model-railcasters show last week, at least I think that was you.

-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.
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onl26
Fireman

USA
1283 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  10:59:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey KP
I like the way this is coming together. The outdoor pics look great. I agree with FT about the additional NBWs and figure adding them will be easy for you.
Kevin
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hon3_rr
Fireman

USA
7237 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2009 :  5:01:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Current colors and I'm going to go with it. Now need to glue the gate and lift assembly into place and add the last couple of N-B-W's.

Something I did not consider when doing this coloring is how the gate 'gets lost' in the background color. The whole gate and lift assembly is only about 1/5th the size of my thumbnail. The earlier red would have been the best way to go for modular viewing.

I'll be adding the metal sheet behind the lift bar like the prototype to assist in bringing the gate and lift assembly to the viewers attention. I've also finished adding the 2nd level siding, most of which will be cut away as the build continues with the convayor housing.








-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 12/21/2009 5:24:43 PM
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Peterpools
Engineer

USA
12335 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2009 :  5:41:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit Peterpools's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Kris
Beautiful work and your metal rust is exceptional.
Peter
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Frederic Testard
Engineer

France
17652 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2009 :  5:49:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like the color now, Kris. You've done a fine job on this gate, and it will probably be even better with the iron sheet behind it.
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onl26
Fireman

USA
1283 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2009 :  9:36:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey KP
I agree with Frederic, I really like how this is turning out and as Peter says the rust on the gate is perfect.
Kevin
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hon3_rr
Fireman

USA
7237 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  10:52:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the comments Guys.

Something I forgot to state is the additional colors used to obtain the subtle rusting of the metal. One needs to really look closely at the top picture (like the different rusting colors toward the edges of the lift bar) to get a feel for how the colors blend.

When the earlier colors applied were dry for a full 24 hours, a wash of Vallejo Violet (paint number 70960 Model Color line) diluted 2:1 (water:paint) was applied and allowed to dry 24 hours. Make sure to remove excess wash with a dry brush prior to allowing to dry. When dry, this really looks blue, but don't freak out.

Finally, a wash applied in a controlled manner via the dry brush/jab method of Dark Rust(paint number 302 Panzer Aces line) diluted 3:1 (water:paint) was used. This was then allowed to dry a full 24 hours.

To produce a dull metal 'sheen' a final Satin Varnish (paint number 522 Model Color line) diluted 3:1 (water:paint) was applied, making sure to wick away with a dry brush any excess wash which had accumlated in the corners and along seam lines.

At this point, I was planning on doing some chalks, but determined it was not necessary on a part this small. On something larger, chalks and maybe a combination of oil-water color paint (like Indian Red) topped with some rust colored chalks could be applied to create some outstanding effects.

Again, thanks everyone for sticking with me on this detailed and side-line trip into the use of Vallejo Acrylics. I have decided to move away from my old standby of Folquil paints and have found that the line of Vallejo Acrylics are more like fine art paints. I have been using this model to do a little playing with the paints to see what I can achieve with them. I'm sure that the effects I gotten so far could have been done easier, but this the basic process I would have used if using Folquil, thus my starting point. I have noted that the Vallejo paints cover much more cleanly and dry to a nicer finish than do paints in the Polly-S line, at least from my experience so far. I'm now starting to really understand why the guys who do military and figure painting are going heavy into this line of paints.

As a side note, I have gone back to some painted metal drums and applied the diluted Satin Varnish which has added a wonderful metal sheen to the castings.

I'm going to try to use some 'cracking' medium when painting the metal sheet which will be applied above the gate to obtain that odd rusting seen on the prototype. We'll see how that works out shortly.

-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.
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hon3_rr
Fireman

USA
7237 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  6:59:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In keeping with the character of this thread, the following hint is for those who may be starting out in modeling, scratch building or modifications of kits. The following is an example of how one can use double sided scotch tape. This is a well known trick on this forum, so there is a good chance that you have seen it in other builds or applied in other applications.

The problem is that the siding needs to be attached to the framework without any glue showing due to the frame being on the outside. If one was to try to attach the siding to the framework, it would be difficult to apply the glue precisely enough to eliminate any excess glue.

By reversing the process, applying glue to the frame along the frame board edges, and then applying the frame as a whole to the siding, the excessive glue issue is mostly eliminated. This however, creates a problem of how to keep the siding straight and in place for the frame to be applied. This is where the double sided scotch tape comes in. This technique can be applied to all sorts of applications, and this is only a single example.

The first picture shows how using a piece of ¼ inch square (actual) piece of wood is glued down. This is used to place a triangle against to form a 90 degree angle. Using the triangle and strip wood, a small piece of double sided scotch tape is laid down, making sure that it does not interfere with the seam at the strip wood. Since the tape is clear, I have marked the edge of the tape and total length of the tape from the strip wood with a blue pen to assist in seeing it.

The siding is then placed on the scotch tape and butted against both the triangle and strip wood. Additional siding pieces are then added, again using both the triangle and prior applied piece of strip wood to keep the siding square. Make sure to check every so often with a square that the strip wood is square in the plane which you want it.

The second picture shows the frame on top of the strip wood. Once glue is applied to the frame, the frame will be weighted down and allowed to dry. The unit will then be carefully removed from the double sided tape.
It is sometimes helpful to get rid of some of the tape’s tackiness by sticking it down on a glass plate or similar object a couple of times prior to sticking the siding to it. This will make it easier to remove the tape from the completed unit.




-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.
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Frederic Testard
Engineer

France
17652 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  8:13:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting tutorial about the use of double sided tape.
I often have problems with it since in France it seems quite difficult to find non permanent strong tape, and since the permanent quality seems to keep its strength even if you apply the method you suggested. So I've tried to see if using ordinary tape (which can easily be found in removable forms) to hold things wouldn't work. In the case of your siding, one could easily do that as the photo below suggests.



You can use double sided tape to hold the square.
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