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hoggrken
Crew Chief

Canada
633 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2008 :  11:35:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi again...

Now that I'm into the 'nitty gritty' of scenery construction, I have been looking at using Lou Sassi's 'ground goop' idea. I have the CelluClay, vermiculite and earth hue latex paint. For what it's worth i also have an old bag of SculptaMold.

Question being, I have heard of folks adding drywall 'mud' (joint compound) into the 'goop'. I have the recipe for the goop (including the Lysol...think I'd use Pine-sol for the evergreen smell)...how much drywall mud should one add to a single batch of goop??

Thanks for your responses!

Cheers, [:-king]

Dutchman
Administrator

USA
29989 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2008 :  12:14:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ken,

I haven't tried adding the drywall mud, and actually haven't heard of it before. I've stuck with the old recipe.

Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3
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RDG-LNE
Engine Wiper

258 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2008 :  1:58:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit RDG-LNE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure why you'd want to add the drywall mud to the mix, as drywall mud is known to shrink and crack. I've just stuck to the tried and true Ground-Goop recipe over the years only modifying it when Perma-Scene disappeared. There was a guy on the Model Railroader(trains.com) forum who was using a paint product like Ground-Goop.

Drew
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RDG-LNE
Engine Wiper

258 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2008 :  2:22:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit RDG-LNE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks to a more boring than usual meeting today, here's a link to the Trains.Com forum I mentioned in a previous post:

http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/132874.aspx

The paint product is called Fibredecor.

Drew
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hoggrken
Crew Chief

Canada
633 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2008 :  5:38:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RDG-LNE

I'm not sure why you'd want to add the drywall mud to the mix, as drywall mud is known to shrink and crack. I've just stuck to the tried and true Ground-Goop recipe over the years only modifying it when Perma-Scene disappeared. There was a guy on the Model Railroader(trains.com) forum who was using a paint product like Ground-Goop.

Drew



Hi Drew, and thanks for the feedback. I'm trying to think where I had seen this. If I recall correctly, the person who tried this wanted more 'set up' time than what the white glue allowed for. (he subbed the drywall mud for the glue)...why I am not sure.

He also mentioned the tendency for the mud to crack and fissure, where he liked the effect and where he didn't like it, he just added more goop.

Think I'll Google this and see where I found this...

On another note...how much white glue do I add to the goop mix??

Cheers,
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Dutchman
Administrator

USA
29989 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2008 :  5:48:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ken,

The formula calls for one cup each of vermiculite, Celluclay, and paint; and one-half cup of white glue. I will usually double the recipe.

Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3
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hoggrken
Crew Chief

Canada
633 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2008 :  6:29:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Bruce for the recipe...gonna have to go to Wally World (AKA Wal-Mart...especially this time of year [:-shake]) and pick up some Elmer's white glue...I have the yellow carpenter's glue (which I feel is a superior product to the garden variety white glue), but I had better stick with the 'Plan A' recipe for now...

However, I wonder how Matte Medium will work [:-idea] (which I have lots of) as opposed to the white glue ...I might have to try a 'test' batch, in the name of model railroad scenery science and report back on the results...

Wish me luck!

Cheers,[:-king]
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Tabooma County Rwy
Fireman

USA
4630 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2008 :  7:06:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I needed some white glue, and searched on line, and ended up buying a gallon from Dick Blick - I think it was less than $9.00. Of course the shipping was added on, but it still came out cheaper (by far) than buying it locally. Just thought you might want another option......besides, Dick Blick has lots of stuff that us model railroaders cannot live without!
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LynnB
Fireman

Canada
2321 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2008 :  9:30:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've always used the original formula and never modified it other than making larger batches than the one cup recipe , only because it works. Now that I think of it I bet saw dust would be a good addition.
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LVN
Fireman

Canada
5281 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2008 :  12:20:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit LVN's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ken. Do not modify the formula. Use white glue as Bruce suggests. Go with what works. Then you can apply the texture earth and ground foam bushes trees while it is still wet. Form the grund the way you want it. roads etc. Static grass if you have the applicator. Saw Mr Sassy's presentation at CSS08 on this.

Chris Lyon
http://www.lyonvalleynorthern.blogspot.com
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hoggrken
Crew Chief

Canada
633 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2008 :  02:37:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Chris...was talkin' to the mama [:-hearts], guess I just missed you before you 'took the call' for the Aylmer Turn to Michel's...

I will go with the glue. Before the goop occurs, I need to fortify the WS plaster gauze (or 'plaster cloth' as they call it). We put it on like shingles, overlapping it to give it some rigidity. Not as much mess as the conventional plaster / paper towel method at Leo's [:-banghead]. Looks like it needs more plaster in places.

The FRED's were impressed at how the chicken wire lends a lot of form and strength to the hillside. I have one tunnel portal installed and one more to go. Then more chicken wire and plaster gauze.[:-eyebrows]

Sounds like I have to 'goop' a section of scenery AND do my initial layer of foliage, dead branches, etc... right after I apply the goop. Is that right?

Cheers, [:-king]
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Dutchman
Administrator

USA
29989 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2008 :  09:03:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ken,

Here's a few ideas.

The goop itself adds a lot of strength to the scenery base, so you might not have to add more plaster first. As long as it is strong enough to support the goop, you are fine.

If you do decide to add more 'plaster' to the plaster cloth, you might try using the prepared 'spackle'. Take some in a mixing can, add some water and stir, and put it on with an old paint brush.

If you are putting on a thick enough layer of goop, you can insert sticks, rock castings, etc. right into the goop while it is wet. You have plenty of time to work with it until it gets stiff, so you don't have to rush. The goop is wet enough to hold a thin layer of sifted dirt or ground foam, but I usually 'paint on' a thin wash of diluted white glue before adding the dirt & foam. You can see some of these steps at this link: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12493&whichpage=26

The best tool for spreading the goop is a stiff palette knife. If you keep the goop in a well sealed container, it will keep for months. It dries well overnight once it is spread on the layout.

Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3
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hoggrken
Crew Chief

Canada
633 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2008 :  11:12:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bruce and thanks for the 'heads up' mini-tutorial[:-thumbu] . It will be a big help. BTW, I think the vermiculite I have is a bit on the big side, but I might be able to make it work...hoping [:-boggled]

I have used the 'spackle'...I'm thinking drywall mud...thinned with a bit of water before in thin coats, on various projects without the cracking, so I might try that...thanks again!

Now to get busy with more of the chicken wire sub-base and install the secong tunnel portal...I don't think it (scenery construction) will be tonight, as the FRED's are gathering at Dave's to give his new car-card /waybill system the test for the first time .

Cheers,[:-king]

Edited by - hoggrken on 12/02/2008 11:18:05 AM
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RDG-LNE
Engine Wiper

258 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2008 :  1:00:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit RDG-LNE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Don't forget that cap of Lysol in your mix, otherwise your Ground Goop may grow mold. The RPI club uses a variation on the standard Ground Goop recipe in that they add some newspaper and mix the goop in a blender. I suspect this makes it more like paper mache, I've never tried that.

Drew

Edited by - RDG-LNE on 12/02/2008 1:04:02 PM
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deemery
Fireman

USA
6446 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2008 :  1:14:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've had really good luck with stuff called M-1 Mildecide (but it's not cheap). It's specifically designed for mixing into paints, and so far I've noticed no adverse effects from mixing it into water-based glues such as Elmers white glue, carpenter's yellow glue, and my favorite, "Gloop". I figure the small bottle I bought for about $15 will last me for life :-)

dave

Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)
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RDG-LNE
Engine Wiper

258 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2008 :  9:57:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit RDG-LNE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I was doing some scenery at a friend's house this evening. I have him convinced to give "Goop" a try after we run out of Gypsolite - gypsolite is hydrocal with some perlite in it and we still have about 20 pounds left. This got me thinking that perlite could be substituted for the vermiculite if you can't find vermiculite. Here's a website on vermiculite:

http://www.vermiculite.com/

Drew
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