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MarkF
Engineer
USA
9272 Posts |
 Posted - 11/04/2009 : 6:24:55 PM
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That first shot of the finished fascia is excellent! What a nice professional appearance it gives the layout!
Interesting idea on the paper. I have never heard of that approach and am interested to hear what you guys think of it. |
Mark
See my homepage at http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/
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AVRR-PA
Fireman
USA
4600 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 07:00:16 AM
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Hi, everyone --
Like Vagel said - we were experimenting with the rosin paper so we were pretty casual about it. Here's a picture of how Vagel "shaped" it - he stuck a spray can underneath, resting on the track below. 
I needed another shelf to hold rolling stock for the bedroom layout and offered to build one for Vagel at the same time - not as a substitute for the roll-around, under-the-layout version we had planned but as a displayer for the "museum" models that will seldom be on the layout. Here's a picture of one the almost-finished shelves:
Still needs a couple more applications of Watco and a french cleat. Material cost - zero. I got all the wood out of scrap 2X construction lumber.
And finally - in line with Auntie Mame's comment about "the ability to accessorize" - we got some blue clamps to go with my *blue* t-shirts.
Finally - the bridge kit arrived! I took it home with me and will start a construction thread on it soon. Should be fun.
Don |
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belg
Fireman
USA
4380 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 07:30:18 AM
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| guys, don't you think that with out any backing like the cardboard web this will have trouble holding trees? And if you have a leaner visit it will rip I think? The carpet fascia is very nicely done, and yet another different method. Are you trying to set a record for unique methods used one layout? Pat |
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 10:52:57 AM
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| I'd love to see how the rosin paper turned out; I was thinking the same thing about the trees.... |
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AVRR-PA
Fireman
USA
4600 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 12:01:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by belg
guys, don't you think that with out any backing like the cardboard web this will have trouble holding trees? And if you have a leaner visit it will rip I think? The carpet fascia is very nicely done, and yet another different method. Are you trying to set a record for unique methods used one layout? Pat
We're just experimenting with the rosin paper, as I said. We have no intention of using it unsupported at the edge of the layout unless it turns out to be a whole lot more rigid than I expect. By now, the glue has had 24 hours to cure so Vagel can give an assessment of how strong it is. My guess, FWIW, is that contractor-grade rosin paper, saturated with undiluted white glue, is probably strong enough to use as body armor. But we'll see.
Don |
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belg
Fireman
USA
4380 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 5:03:29 PM
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| Don, I look forward to the experiment results. I knew you said it was a test run just was wondering if the test should not include a small section which is better supported to see how it would hold up?? Is the idea to use less material and still get a reasonable result? Thanks Pat |
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Vagel Keller
Crew Chief
USA
722 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 8:07:31 PM
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Hi, All ...
It's been a busy day at the home of the B&SGE, between following up yesterday's work session, continuing with the Buchanan mine ramp, and working with my handy-man on 1:1 scale outer door winterization on the other two apartments that pay the "freight" for the train room, I just got to sit down and reply to all the questions and comments ...
First, initial feedback on the Zane Resin Paper scenery base:
It's not "body armor," so IMHO even with a grid of cardboard strips it won't replace hardshell or extruded styrofoam as a front-of-the-layout scenery base. But it DOES hold its shape when dry, and it will support trees and even visitors as long as they're HO scale, as the following photo will attest (I took it after removing the Krylon-pylon):
The "fine" tree is a small Scenic Express "super tree", while the other is a puffball teased from a 1-1/2" square of Woodland Scenics Fall foliage impaled on a toothpick. Because the paper is really resistant to puncture when impregnated with dried white glue, I had to support it with my hand from underneath to make the holes for the two trees with a toothpick. So my evaluation, which is worth every penny you pay for it, is that this method is essentially a poor-man's hardshell. It seems to be ideal for applications beyond the reach of the visitor-from-Hell, but should be supported by some armature, like a light cardboard grid or balled up newspaper so you can install rock castings while still wet without it sagging and go back and "plant" trees after it's dry.
Here are a couple of shots of the areas we carpeted yesterday after I reinstalled the DCC UTP's and cut openings around the control panels. I purchased small clipboards at our local evil big-box office supplies chain that put our local really neat office supplies store out of business a couple years ago (oops, does that comment belong in the crew lounge?)[:-devil] They are for holding blank train orders and/or switch lists as we develop our concept for prototypical train operations ... anyone remember the standard railroad form number for time travel?
I think I'll be spending most of my time at Ft. Loudon, where there's room for a chair! It's also going to be the best place on the layout to sit and watch trains role by ...
Up at Buchanan, I filled in the gaps in the Woodland Scenics styrofoam ramps and created embankments with a material called Brandt's Paper Mache' Compound. I bought a 5-lb bag of it from my LHS over a decade ago and still have 3 lbs left; I'm sure you could find it in art supply stores, as well. It's a finely-ground paper powder that mixes up like Plaster of Paris or Hydrocal.
Here's a "before" picture for reference:
Applied with a putty knife, it's surface is a little rough when fresh:
I like this stuff because it gets pretty stiff after about an hour but takes a long time to set up, and it is never water proof until painted. That means you can continue to work its surface as long as it's damp, and even after it sets up you can dampen the surface and mess with it. I went back this evening and ran my finger over the surface to work out the bumpiness -- just like finishing a concrete slab. Here's what it looked like afterward. It's still a bit rough, but fine for my purposes; it'll be covered with cinders.
You can work it until its surface is really smooth, and when dry it takes on the color of old concrete. A fellow model railroader in this area uses it for concrete freight and passenger platforms and foundations all over his layout with really good results.
More later,
Vagel
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Edited by - Vagel Keller on 11/05/2009 11:23:50 PM |
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MarkF
Engineer
USA
9272 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 10:39:39 PM
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| Well, you are certainly getting a lot accomplished these days! Finishing the fascia, experimenting with hardshell, setting up for operations, trackwork and associated scenery/landforms. WOW! Looking good! Paper Mache' Compound! Looks like it worked out well. |
Mark
See my homepage at http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/
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Vagel Keller
Crew Chief
USA
722 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 11:32:28 PM
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Thanks, Mark.
One thing I forgot to mention about the resin paper is the color. As it comes, it's already an oxide red color, but when soaked with glue and allowed to dry it takes on a red-brownish tone that to my eye is just like the iron-rich soil so characteristic of Pennsylvania's Juniata Valley. Such is also the case in many parts of Appalachia. You don't even need to paint it; it naturally takes on the base color I want!
Vagel |
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AVRR-PA
Fireman
USA
4600 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2009 : 06:25:55 AM
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Hi, Vagel (and all y'all) --
I'm going to want to scrounge a little of that Papier Mache' material to try when I make the concrete part of the loading platform on my team track. I'll show up at the layout with a cup, like a neighbor wanting to borrow sugar.
Man, you are really flying. I'll have to talk to Carnegie-Mellon about keeping you unemployed.
I've started a separate thread on the Ravine Trestle, in anyone is interested.
I wonder if we could get Body Armor from the rosin paper if we glued two layers together? Given that I'm getting it for free, that wouldn't add anything but the cost of glue to the project.
Don
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Vagel Keller
Crew Chief
USA
722 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2009 : 8:58:15 PM
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Thanks for all the interest, guys. I had hoped to be able to post a photo of the finished track work at the Buchanan mine tonight, but that paper mache' compound is STILL damp. That's partly because now that it's heating season in Pennsyltucky I keep the thermostat set at 60, but it's also because the mixture was a bit too soupy. I mixed up another small batch this afternoon to prepare the ramp at the coaling tower dump house in the engine terminal, and I made it almost as thick as spackling compound ... it's still damp this evening but much farther along than the first batch was at that time yesterday.
Meanwhile, while getting ready to continue the track weathering project I noticed some unsoldered rail joints. That prompted a track inspection tour that revealed quite a few joints unsoldered and forgotten, so out came the soldering iron and that's now done. And while I was at it, I installed tension springs fabricated from staples in all the standard gauge turnouts that still lacked them. The staple-as-spring technique is another idea that I got from Bob Prehoda ... I'll post a couple of shots next time I get a chance.
I'll check back in when the tracks at the Buchanan mine and the coaling tower are finally in service ...
... oh, and before I go, all the nice things folks have been saying about our progress prompted a retrospective trip through this thread, and I was struck dumb when I came across the following picture of the museum yard area from March and compared it to the one from mid-October!
We have made great progress, and it has been both a challenge and great fun.
Vagel
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AVRR-PA
Fireman
USA
4600 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 06:09:51 AM
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You mean it took us SIX months to get from the first picture to the second? Man, we've got to pick up the pace!
Just kidding. Sort of.
Don |
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elwoodblues
Fireman
Canada
4873 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 07:21:35 AM
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Vagel,
You just had to show another picture with those bright lime green color coordinated gloves clamps and shirt.[:-bigeyes][:-bigeyes]
You guys have made great progress in a very short time.
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Ron Newby
General Manager
Clearwater Valley Railway Co.
http://www.cvry.ca |
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Vagel Keller
Crew Chief
USA
722 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 11:34:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by elwoodblues
Vagel,
You just had to show another picture with those bright lime green color coordinated gloves clamps and shirt.[:-bigeyes][:-bigeyes]
You guys have made great progress in a very short time.
Curses! Foiled again. Thanks, Ron. Don's side-long "Just kidding" is his way of chiding me for being a noodge about lack of scenic progress on some of our NMRA FreeMo modules, while continuing to "waste time" running trains on my own baby poop brown Plywood Central with exposed wiring for hillsides. Point taken, but I'm just not that well organized to keep up with Don's level of energy sometimes  ... I promise we'll be doing scenery stuff next time Don and I get together.
Vagel |
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AVRR-PA
Fireman
USA
4600 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 07:13:23 AM
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Hi, Vagel (and everyone) --
Nah, I wasn't chiding you. Just being a smart ass, with no serious or hidden purpose at all. Actually, I think you've done amazingly well and I'm glad I'm able to help. But if you weren't working on it several times a week, between our Wednesday sessions, the results would be far less impressive.
Don |
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Topic |
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New Home for the Blacklog & Shade Gap Eastern
