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Vagel Keller
Crew Chief
USA
722 Posts |
 Posted - 03/23/2009 : 10:40:05 PM
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Don's pictures from the open house arrived last night. Before I post them, I want to say that, although it might not seem an appropriate topic for a thread in the RR Construction forum, in retrospect we both see the experience as having been an operational test, if you will, of the design and construction effort to date. The problem with the Walthers heavyweight passenger cars tells me that the museum back shop crew has some alterations to make to a lot of undercarriages, for example. There's no room to expand the radius, and I'm not ready to abandon the "rare mileage" trip concept for this layout. (Interestingly, the older Bachmann Spectrum passenger cars were engineered to handle 24" radii just fine, thank you very much.)
And I also learned that the track plan at Ft. Loudon will take some very attentive dispatching to make sure that future railfan excursions don't interfere with the interchange in support of blast furnace ops there.
Also, we've decided to add a temporary return loop for the standard gauge line at this time, as well, both for ease of ops in future open houses for the short term and to be able to truly "run in" the standard gauge engines. Down the road, so to speak, it is clear that I will need to add another long passing siding to the standard gauge line on the continuous running extension beyond Ft. Loudon, which creates a new creative challenge for the plan on the opposite side of the backdrop from the blast furnace.
So, I guess the lesson learned is to not be shy about opening your layout to visitors even if all you've got to show is a Plywood Central; the learning experience, vis a vis planning and construction, is worth the effort, and the folks who show up will all be in the same boat as you are! An interesting and rewarding day, all around.
Here are a couple more overview shots that show our cardboard guards to keep things from falling off the edge of the world:
Don loaned me two digitraxx universal panels because the ones I ordered from Tony's Train Exchange didn't arrive in time. I mounted them directly to the sub-roadbed, where they were recessed about 4 inches from the edge of the bench work, safe and sound from errant bellies and butts:
Another layout construction lession learned was that, even at this temporary, interim stage, we could really have used two more of these deali-hoots: one at the end of the peninsula on one side of the wall or the other, and another one around the bend from the turntable. Eventually, I will definitely convert to wireless, but this open house reminded me of what I'd already learned from the NMRA MCR Div. 2 FreeMo experience: you still need to have a plug-in panel every 8 feet or so.
Here Don captured the I1a arriving at Ft. Loudon with a coal drag. Not sexy, but a Pennsy staple. Don timed his shot perfectly; "drivers down." 
Meanwhile, back in the the staging area, diseasals EF15 (FP7 for the Pennsy Impaired) #9142A & B and steamer T1 #5528 (a non-articulated 4-4-4-4) waited with a fallen flag boxcar train and the ill-fated passenger excursion, respectively.
Both have classical lines from the streamliner era, the first produced by General Motors Electro Motive Division and the second by industrial designer Raymond Loewy ... even in HO scale, the T1 looks fast just sitting there, doesn't it!?
At the other end of the staging tracks lay the not-so-photogenic locomotives that would pull the passenger and freight trains on the return legs, K4s #5451 (l) and FS24m (Fairbanks Morse Trainmaster) #8706. These engines followed their respective trains in reverse, then coupled onto them at Ft. Loudon to pull them home.
The Trainmaster, of course, had a face only a mother could love from its inception. The K4s, on the other hand, was born beautiful but later disfigured by deviate plastic surgeons in the post-WW2 modernization project at Pennsy's Juniata Shops in Altoona. At least in 5451's case, the vandals were thwarted before they removed the graceful slatted pilot in favor of the massive cast steel monstrosity that her sisters were forced to wear, like milestones about their necks. But I rant ...
Up on the narrow gauge Buchanan Branch, Don captured the meet between the Buchanan Mixed pulled by B&SGE No. 10 and freight extra EBT No. 12 north at Buchanan station.
One final note: this experience has confirmed in me the idea that, although I love to participate in operations sessions on operations oriented layouts, for my own purposes, I am an HO scale railfan. This layout was conceived as primarily a place to watch trains, and the experience of running this open house and then writing up these posts proves ( to me, at least) that that is what I want this layout to be.
We'll be back after the MidWest Narrow Gauge Show,
Vagel |
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George D
Moderator
USA
9917 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 08:31:26 AM
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It sounds like your open house was a good learning experience. The problem of passenger cars negotiating 24” curves must be a frustration. Our club layout has a 42” minimum radius, so the problem is foreign to me.
I agree with you on the T1. It’ll make any Pennsy fan’s heart beat faster. I sure was happy when BLI brought her out. Now you need to add some Sharks to your roster.
George
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Vagel Keller
Crew Chief
USA
722 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 10:42:58 AM
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Believe me, George, if I could've gotten away with greater than 24" radii on hidden trackage, I would've done it, but keeping the aisles at, or as close as possible to, 24" wide necessitated it. I did test the T1 on a friend's layout to confirm BLI's claim to 24" minimum. It just puts me off my fresh fried lobster, as Hawkeye said.
Vagel
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Vagel Keller
Crew Chief
USA
722 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2009 : 10:56:19 PM
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Hi, all. Don and I got together today for a short work session oriented on finishing up his AC power outlet project. Don ran the Romex cable to the breaker panel and installed the new circuit breaker OK ... no need for my dry stick. But there's a ghost short in the system, so Don will be back on Thursday afternoon with Ohm meter in hand; we fervently hope we find the problem.
After this is done, it's on to "closing the loop' on the standard gauge and starting to rough in the land forms for scenery.
Vagel |
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AVRR-PA
Fireman
USA
4610 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 06:22:49 AM
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[:-banghead][:-banghead][:-banghead]
Don |
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Orionvp17
Fireman
USA
2808 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 09:34:51 AM
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Vagel,
You might have a look at switches and gaps, or a look at the whole railroad or things like errant screwdrivers. Don't ask how I know this....
Good luck with finding the little devil!
Don, you left your clinic data sign-up sheet in Salem; I know where it is. If you'll contact me off-list, I'll see about getting it back to you. I've tried the PM route a couple of times without success....
Pete
in Michigan |
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Vagel Keller
Crew Chief
USA
722 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 1:28:43 PM
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Hi, Pete. We're good (so far) with the HO scale electrons. It's the 1:1 scale version in the under-layout electrical outlet system that are causing the problem.
[:-bulb] Maybe we should've stayed with the 1930's theme of the layout and gone with knob and tube ... |
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Orionvp17
Fireman
USA
2808 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 7:38:38 PM
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Vagel,
If it's the 1:1 stuff that's causing shorts, it might be beneficial to run a "search and destroy" mission before you have unexpected company drop in. I'm thinking of two engine companies, a ladder company, a rescue company.... [:-banghead]
Pete
in Michigan |
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AVRR-PA
Fireman
USA
4610 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 9:12:27 PM
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I went through the 110 volt circult and found two problems. I had a bad outlet - yes, they can fail internally - and I had wired the combination switch and pilot light incorrectly. Unfortunately we ran out of time before I could finish putting everything back together so that will have to wait until Wednesday.
Oh, almost forgot, I found (or perhaps created) a third problem while putting one of the quad boxes back together. I hadn't been meticulous enough about how much insulation I stripped off the wire ends that get pushed into the back of the devices - there was a little bit of exposed copper wire. When I pushed everything into the box, the ground wire came in contact with the bit of bare wire and popped the breaker.
We'll finish it up next Wednesday.
Don |
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Vagel Keller
Crew Chief
USA
722 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 12:54:47 AM
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... and finish it [he] did. Don arrived today with his usual tool boxes and something unusual: instructions in the form of ye olde Time-Life Home Improvement volume on "Basic Wiring." Result: the AC wiring project (aka, the Sistine Chapel ceiling) has reached a successful conclusion. My wife, Debbie, whose most oft-quoted comment is, "Why don't we pull in here and ask for directions?," was unavailable for comment.
This photo says it ALL. Switch "on," pilot light "on," no shorts, and when the switch was off, so was the pilot light. Folks, it's not as simple as you'd think. Well done, Don!
So, what does this have to do with Model Railroad Construction? Well, for starters, the electrical circuit that powers the B&SGE is now controlled by a single switch with a red light staring me in the face if it's still "on" as I close the door at the end of the day. Before retiring to Ritters for the Wednesday Meatloaf Sammich'n'Cuppa Navy Bean Soup special, we had the ceremonial first DCC system power-up from the new circuit:
Here's the kicker: Everything associated with the model RR (soldering irons, Dremel tools, Tortoise machines, UT5 power supplies, grain of wheat bulbs, DCC, etc ...) has now been moved from the existing Knob-and-tube wiring spliced into Romex cable to newly installed Romex cable wired directly to the breaker panel. 'nuff said.
While Don was finishing the electrical infrastructure project, I worked on fleshing out the backbone of the "museum" yard area. Recall that we had temporarily tacked down a long passing siding arrangement for our open house during the NMRA MCR Div. 2 Jamboree (see our post from 3/19/09). But that configuration did not reflect the envisioned plan for either end of the yard. The yard had to be reworked, so the first step was to move everything on the layout to Ft. Loudon, which became quite crowded.
As an aside, due to outstanding foresight on the part of the B&SGE's Operations Division, our transition to wireless DCC was "spade-ready" when the IRS informed our accounting department that the Federal Government had (God knows how) over-charged us on taxes during 2008). So we will be state-of-the-art in the coming months.
Two big challenges surfaced. The first was how to deal with the curved approach into the "north" end of the yard in a way that would allow a smooth transition to the temporary return loop and to the future main line while, at the same time, allowing for a smooth flow to an escape track from the turntable.
The Railroad-Line website has chosen this moment for a Brain Fart. Good night.
Vagel |
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AVRR-PA
Fireman
USA
4610 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 08:07:07 AM
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Hi, everyone --
Yeah, as Vagel mentioned, I applied Murphy's First Rule - "when all else fails, read the instructions." Those old Time-Life books are still excellent, but I should probably buy something newer because some of the electrical materials have changed.
What a relief to have that 110 volt wiring project done! But - sort of quoting Vagel again - very worthwile. I was really super-meticulous on the second time around so (cross fingers) it should work well for a long time.
Vagel is coming up with some really elegant, aesthetically pleasing solutions to the yard track work. I don't know much about layout planning, but I figure, "If it looks good, it probably is good."
Don
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Vagel Keller
Crew Chief
USA
722 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 11:36:49 AM
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OK, let's try again ...
As I was saying, two big challenges surfaced [vis a vis the yard layout]. The first was how to deal with the curved approach into the "north" end of the yard in a way that would allow a smooth transition to the temporary return loop and to the future main line while, at the same time, allowing for a smooth flow to an escape track from the turntable. I spent most of Monday and Wednesday trying to figure that out, and here's the result:
The main curves off to the right; to its left is the arrival track, then the make-up/departure track, and finally the diverging escape track is almost, but not perfectly, a straight line to the turntable bridge.
At the other, "south" end, I'm forced by the way I've positioned the turntable to go with a stub-end yard and by the room dimensions to accept a too-short drill track. So, there will be times when the yard switcher will necessarily foul the main. [:-irked] This is my tentative layout of turnouts at that end of the yard to allow access from the yard ladder to both the make-up/departure and arrival tracks:
From left to right, the main (with a turnout diverging to two hidden storage tracks), the arrival track, then the make-up/departure track. The arrow diverging to the right leads to engine servicing. I wanted to put that on the other side of the turntable, but the realities of the curved north yard leads took more space than my sketch maps showed.
I don't like having the engine servicing lead come into the make-up/departure track, but I also don't like putting the servicing tracks between the aisle and the yard tracks, where arms have to reach over the coaling and sand towers. I might have to do that, though ... we'll see.
So, this is where things stand now. More later.
Vagel |
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AVRR-PA
Fireman
USA
4610 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 09:09:00 AM
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Hi, everyone --
Before we wrapped up last Wednesday, Vagel and I bought another 4x8 sheet of subroadbed material. We started at the local Home Depot but their stuff was so non-flat that we gave up and drove a considerable distance to Lowe's - where we found the same situation. [:-banghead][:-banghead][:-banghead]
So everything we cut out of this sheet will have to be flattened with bracing underneath, screwed and glued. I'm beginning to understand why some people are willing to go to the trouble of building up splined roadbed.[:-boggled]
With the weather getting more bearable, we'll be doing our sabre saw work outdoors so we don't fill the layout room with sawdust.
Vagel has worked out the standard gauge return loop in cardboard and cutting and fitting that will be our first project. Like the narrow gauge return loop, this is temporary. But it's even more temporary - we're trying to come up with a design that will allow him to remove it and re-install it quickly, so he can use it whenever he wants to but get it out of the way - it intrudes on the work table/work bench area - for Quilting Bees and the like.
If all goes well, we might have cork and track down on it. But when did all ever go well? 
Vagel is hosting a quilting bee toward the end of this month - I'll report on that in the FreeMo thread. We'll be talking about painting LP's and weathering rolling stock.
Don |
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hunter48820
Fireman
6024 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2009 : 12:24:57 AM
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Hi Vagel,
Your layout is coming along nicely. Great pics of progress!! Regarding the single power switch for the layout. I did the same thing but I have it at the opposite end of the long aisleway. If I don't look back and see the DCC system red lights on, I sometimes forget the switch. I think that I will add a simple red light right at the exit door to the layout room and feed it with power from the layout. May help this old fart to remember!![:-eyebrows] |
Best, Andy Keeney
Look out for #1, but don't step in #2! |
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AVRR-PA
Fireman
USA
4610 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2009 : 06:45:33 AM
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Hi, Andy --
Thanks for writing!
Yeah, having the pilot light near the exit is definitely a help for those of us with CRS.
I'm assuming it would take some major rewiring on your part to move the master switch up by the door, so running a low-voltage circuit and using an LED or grain of wheat in a small enclosure as your indicator would be a good compromise. But if you have track power "off" and a soldering iron "on" - er, not so good. So I guess I'd hope to eventually get the 110 volt pilot light up by the door.
I'm sure I had some other points I wanted to make, but unfortunately I've forgotten them.
Don |
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New Home for the Blacklog & Shade Gap Eastern
