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belg
Fireman
USA
4378 Posts |
 Posted - 05/11/2008 : 09:04:10 AM
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| Rick, Mark, thanks for the further explanation thats what I was thinking it was for but just thought since I had your attention I would ask. As for saving the questions up, I usually keep an eye on a thread like yours for a while and see if the questions kind of answer themselves. Do you make copies of the turnout and track to do the layout? If I remember doesn't Atlas have a planning guide which gives them to you? Thanks again, and Mark, if and when I get started on the layout I'll drop you an email and see when you guys are available, OK? Pat |
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Steam Nut
Fireman
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2008 : 10:33:34 AM
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| Little does Rick know that Capital street will be laid and wired in a few short hours. Woops, I guess its out of the bag now. |
Steam Lives! |
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Mike Hamer
Engineer
9343 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2008 : 12:52:16 PM
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Hi Rick (& Mark and Bruce)
Wow, I'm just getting caught up with this thread as the last time I looked was a couple of months back. My God, you've got a layout almost built in that short amount of time. Yes, it is imporant to create deadlines, whether they be official (such as convention weekends) or less official (such as the anticipated first train ops sessions).
Indeed, Rick...you've got superhuman empire builders there in Mark and Steamnut, but, as Mark alluded to..this couldn't have been made possible without 'your' vision and your craftsmanship as well!
It's been a ton of fun reading through all seven pages of the thread thus far...seeing the developments materialize in front of my eyes and reading of the 'brainstorming' efforts that have been going into this amazing project. I really like the idea that you are modelling the area local to the major plant...and once trains begin moving your layout will come to life just as blood flows through the veins and arteries.
Rick, I really like the way your valence and fascia with the black curtains have totally focussed the eyes on the layout itself. It's a true joy following along on your build as you are bringing back fond memories for me when I was at that stage with my layout! [:-apple] [:-apple] |
All the best, Mike Hamer
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
http://craftsmanstructures.blogspot.com
http://bostonandmaine.blogspot.com
http://fridaynightgroup.blogspot.com |
Edited by - Mike Hamer on 05/11/2008 12:53:19 PM |
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2008 : 05:14:38 AM
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Thanks for the nice comments, Mike....it's certainly been an eventful six months (or so). I still smile and shake my head in wodner every time I descend the stairs. As Mark will tell you, my Achilles heel is hating to do something over again because I forgot or overlooked something important or essential...which always resulted in far more contemplation than construction. That's why Steam sets a timer whenever a decision needs to be made.
As far as the track templates, Pat, they're very old ones sold by Arbour Models twenty years ago. I'm the type of person who needs visial aids to comprehend how something will look (witness my posting about Maclay Street). I can sketch out a scene on paper, but there's nothing better than working with the actual objects themselves. Steam, Mark, and I manuevered those things around countless times when laying out the Capital Street section. The orginal kit included multiples of all the common radii as well as turnouts, crossings, wyes, and even straight sections...very helpful for us imagination challenged people. I've also read of modelers who get the same result by merely placing turnouts and crossings on a copier machine, then cutting them out...
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MarkF
Engineer
USA
9270 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2008 : 09:33:43 AM
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I'm sure many of us are more like Rick than we care to admit. We all want to get it done right the first time. The problem is that we probably won't. The secret is to not be afraid to rip it up and do it over when a better idea comes along.
While I will sketch in idea on paper, I am not a person who can draw a scale plan. I need to lay it out and see it in front of me. These templates Rick has are GREAT for that! My only word of caution is the turnouts. Each manufacturer's turnout varies slightly, from length, angle, etc. Take one of each turnout you plan to use (#4 left, #4 right, etc) and photocopy them. Make lots of copies! Then you can lay them out on the layout is proposed yard areas, etc. This will give you an accurate idea of what will really work before spending the money on turnouts.
As I've warned Rick, the one thing I learned from my layout was to start operating as early as possible. Any problems with a track plan will surface when you begin truly operating your layout. That's when a poorly placed turnout, a missing crossover, etc., will make itself known! Besides, the fun part of building a layout is getting to the operations stage, right? |
Mark
See my homepage at http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2008 : 3:37:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Steam Nut
Little does Rick know that Capital street will be laid and wired in a few short hours. Woops, I guess its out of the bag now.
If I've learned anything these past five months, it's never to underestimate Steam's ability to offer up suggestions/recommendations that really DO make a difference, despite the look of horror that's usually on my face while listening to the explanation.... |
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Steam Nut
Fireman
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 07:28:28 AM
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| Oh yeh, Cant wait to get the old tape out and see where I can add some bench work this time. |
Steam Lives! |
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2008 : 06:37:21 AM
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Time for a short update; the last work session focused primarily on the Capital Street industrial switching area. A combination of our thoughts and ideas, it will feature a lot of switching in a relatively small amount of space. Look closely and you will notice that Steam installed all the ground throws at the edge of the benchwork since there will be buildings between the operator and the trackwork. Here's the overall area which measures 7 ft x 2 ft deep:
Where the area is connected to the main:
A little better view of the track arrangement:
Mark worked on the still under construction bridge approach to Commonwealth Coke; due to my lack of foresight, this area is turning out to be an engineering challenge:
John R will be bashing a skewed Walther's double tracked bridge to cross over the mainline and enter Commonwealth.
A few random results of "let's play with the camera settings":
A close up of the cast house (which needs a lot more detail):
And another:
And finally, a close up of Keystone Warehousing:
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dnhman
Fireman
USA
1049 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2008 : 4:18:39 PM
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Rick Looking good!!! hope to operate some day,,,
joe
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Cheers!, Joe |
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 06:30:16 AM
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Thanks Joe...so do we! LOL Mark was over last night and the two of us once again wrestled with a proposed operating scheme, which is further complicated by all the Harsco inter and intra-plant moves. Everytime we think we have something nailed down, the other person says: "But what about....." and the whole thing dissolves. In an effort to be somewhat prototypical, I am using a spreadsheet from the steel group which correlates all the material quantities in both tonnage and cars needed to make steel....and while it's nice to be as prototypical as possible, both of us have to concede that there's just no way we can possibly move 82 slag cars per session across the layout, much less store them between movements. Add to this regular through freight runs as well as two locals and a dedicated coke plant turn (all of which are interrelated to one degree or another) and you have the makings for an operational meltdown. To his credit, Mark hasn't thrown in the towel yet but keeps plugging away, trying to synchronize everything. Both of us decided that we need to have an experimental benchmarking session just to physically replicate the movements needed to make certain that there's sufficent track, cars, and time.
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Edited by - Harsco on 05/18/2008 06:31:31 AM |
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belg
Fireman
USA
4378 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 07:44:10 AM
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| Hey Rick or Steam, could you direct me to a link where there is an explanation of how to install the throws at a distance like that? I have only ever seen them done right at the turnout, progress is continuous and well planned until you guys change it again! LOL Pat |
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 09:12:46 AM
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Pat...I don't recall an article on the technique, only that I've seen it done before. Basically, it's a piece of K&S brass tubing buried in the Homosote serving as a conduit with a piece of wire inside it. Steam picked up the tubing at a local hobby shop and I had a bunch of .030 diameter stainless welding wire in my inventory. I THINK it was 1/16th brass tubing, but Steam can verify that.
After Steam laid out the path from the turnout to where the ground throw was to be located (has to be a straight line to ensure reliability), I sliced into the Homosote with a utility knife, creating a shallow "V" cut, then used a rat tail file to gouge it out a bit more, the idea being to create a ditch deep enough so that the tubing doesn't stick up.
Once that was done, Steam measured and cut the tubing, then inserted a length of the wire and made a 90 degree bend on the turnout end to insert into the throw bar. The process is repeated on the opposite end when you've located where the ground throw will be placed.
This is one of those techniques best planned for BEFORE you lay track...otherwise it creates a lot more work than you might have bargained for. Kudos to Steam for thinking ahead and realizing that the buildings which will be located in front of the track will make it difficult for the operators to reach over to throw the turnouts.
Not to sound like a broken record, but this is where having a couple of seasoned operations vets around can pay huge dividends. Although I have operated in the past, it's never been as much as Mark and Steam, who have accumulated the experience of knowing what works and what doesn't. |
Edited by - Harsco on 05/18/2008 09:13:44 AM |
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Steam Nut
Fireman
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 11:14:04 AM
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| Theirs no link to any site that I know of either, Just 30 years in the hobbie. I learrned a lot from a club I was a member of at one time also. The tube thing works well Its 1/16 tube and I use .032 brass wire in it but Rick had wire already. If you need to go more than 12" in with the rod you can space the tube apart and join the throw wire and make it longer. If you need a long distance you can use the tube and rods that the RC airplane guys use, I've seen them up to three feet long. Its also a good idea to put a few drops of glue on the rods to hold them in place after you have tested every thing. |
Steam Lives! |
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belg
Fireman
USA
4378 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 12:03:07 PM
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| Thanks guys, thanks so much for the explination, Rick if possible the next time you have the camera out could you take a shot of the connections? Pat |
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 2:55:11 PM
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| No problem....will snap a couple later on today. Another source is a welding supply store, which typically stocks all types and diameters of wire in 36 inch lengths (that's wherre mine came from). Usually, anything smaller that 1/16th is a special order, but most places typically have some small stuff laying around. The material type doesn't matter much either.... |
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Harrisburg Terminal Railroad (HTRR)
