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MarkF
Engineer
USA
9270 Posts |
 Posted - 09/11/2008 : 7:28:42 PM
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| I saw this building in person last night and I have to tell you, for what it is, it's great! The brick detail from the disc is impressive! I like your idea Rick. Seeing a line drawing, picture, etc., is fine for some, but like you, I have to see it in 3D in the spot, and you've found a great way to do that. Heck, it's good enough to leave there for a while. |
Mark
See my homepage at http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/
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the_journeyman_au
New Hire
Australia
4 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 06:37:15 AM
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Hi guys, I have been following this thread with great interest as I am starting to get my layout built. I love the idea of a steel industry and have several questions about how you worked out the number of cars to support a mill. You mentioned way back at the start of the thread about needing more cars ( with lots of groans if I remember correctly) but didn't go into much detail. Can you please help by pointing me in the right direction to learn this info.
I am amazed at the skills that have been displayed in building this layout so far.
Thanks for allowing me to see what can be done and please don't stop doing it because now I can see what dedication can acheive.
Cheers
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 08:20:35 AM
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Morning, Journeyman...thanks for the nice comments. The "inventory needed" was determined via a spreadsheet "Steel Mill Cars" I got from the Steel Yahoo Group. Basically, you plug in the size and number of your plant's facilities (blast furnace, BOF, open hearth, coke ovens), and it calculates how many carloads of raw materials it would require to make a certain amount of iron or steel. One thing it does is definitely open your eyes to the sheer volume of stuff needed to make a ton of steel; another is underscore the need for modeler's license....it takes a LOT. The spreadsheet is in the Group's "Files" Section as memory serves...great planning tool, especially if you're just beginning.
I'm currently attending the Steel Mill Modeler's meet in Lancaster, PA and in the first presentation last night entitled "Steel Mill Modeling 101", Mike Rabbit offered some very good pointers if you're just starting out:
1) Take a deep breath, you can't possibly model an entire integrated plant unless you happen to have an empty, domed stadium.
2) Era can dictate a lot from both the process and capacity perspective. The earlier the era, the smaller the capacity, need for cars, size, etc.
3)The level of detail needed to accurately model a plant is beyond incredible; instead of being overwhelmed or consumed by nit-picking, go for the overall effect, then focus on perhaps one or two aspects and detail them.
4)As Mike put it: steel mill modeling allows you a broad application of modeler's license. If you come up with something slightly weird or off-base, chances are good the real plants did it too.
5) Most importantly: are you modeling a steel mill as a integral part of your layout's traffic flow or merely as a backdrop industry? Is the steel mill a part of your layout or is your layout a part of your steel mill? The answer will determine the initial direction you go in.
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Edited by - Harsco on 09/12/2008 08:30:21 AM |
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Dutchman
Administrator
USA
23229 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 09:12:11 AM
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Rick,
I'm also a great fan of making a mock-up of a building to see if it fits and 'looks right'. I usually cut up an old cereal box and put scrap wood braces inside. I am really going to have to get me that Rail Graphics disc. That brick siding looks good. |
Bruce
Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3 |
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hunter48820
Fireman
6024 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 11:17:04 AM
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Hi Rick,
I agree with Bruce. That is a great looking building and it would be super for a flat, especially as many as I will have to have!!
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Best, Andy Keeney
Look out for #1, but don't step in #2! |
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MarkF
Engineer
USA
9270 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 12:42:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by the_journeyman_au
You mentioned way back at the start of the thread about needing more cars ( with lots of groans if I remember correctly) but didn't go into much detail. Can you please help by pointing me in the right direction to learn this info.
Thanks for your kind comments! It's been fun so far. Rick is really the steel guru, and I bring the operations aspect to the table. Rick and I spent many hours together over the past few months where he taught me more about the steel industry than I thought possible! Quite a good teacher he is.
The file he mentions from the Yahoo group was invaluable. It's really just a simple Excel file with formulas in it. As Rick said, you plug in certain information and it gives you the car loads and volume. From there, we scratched our heads and realized that a little modelers license would be needed, but we wanted to keep things in proportion as much as possible, and I think we accomplished that goal. The key thing to remember is KISS (keep it simple stupid). Remember that most visitors to your layout will have no idea what the correct number of cars is, but if you represent a logical flow of traffic for each commodity, it will do the trick.
As you have probably read, we are still 'tweaking' the operations, but it's been fun so far. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I think between Rick and myself, we can at least point you in the right direction. |
Mark
See my homepage at http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2008 : 07:04:30 AM
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| Bruce and Andy...with my layout, background buildings will be a necessity of the highest order; the disk also contains a lot of pictures of single buildings as well as wide panorama images, making the array of choices that much broader...an excellent value. |
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Dick Kuepper
Fireman
USA
1659 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2008 : 07:37:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dutchman
Rick,
I'm also a great fan of making a mock-up of a building to see if it fits and 'looks right'. I usually cut up an old cereal box and put scrap wood braces inside. I am really going to have to get me that Rail Graphics disc. That brick siding looks good.
Is this the Model Builder software? I googled rail graphics, but didn't find what you folks are describing,
Thanks. |
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2008 : 12:19:06 PM
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| Dick: my apologies; obviously it's NOT Rail Graphics but another name that escapes recall (and unfortunately the disk needs to be found)...let me do some digging and I'll get the info posted here (something makes me think I did this once before - misidentifying the company - and corrected it) |
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2008 : 09:00:14 AM
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A couple of updates: I decided on a background addition to Wilsbach to "bulk" it up a little more...this is just plain illustration board with the same brick material and another computer-based sign. To the right I've added a city street and possibly a future mini-scene:
Thursday and Friday I attended the Steel Mill Modeler's meet in Lancaster, Pa and came away with not only a wealth of steel mill related information and ideas, but as luck would have it, the entire right side of the still abuilding Commonwealth Coke! Much to my shock and eventual delight, a very nice gentleman was selling this three battery segment that perfectly matched what I eventually needed (and was dreading scratchbuilding). Talk about luck (see Andy, proof that I am Irish!). I practically ran out to my truck with the darn thing, worried that something bad would happen to prevent me from getting it on the layout. Realistically speaking, this addition is going to save me six months of very intense head scratching, fussing, and cussing. Of course I just HAD to put it on the layout and get a quick picture...
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Edited by - Harsco on 09/14/2008 09:02:44 AM |
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MarkF
Engineer
USA
9270 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2008 : 09:36:29 AM
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| Wow Rick, that is quite the find. It does look good there too. I like what you did with Wilsbach and Co. Looking good. Looks like Capital Street is going to evolve quickly? (No pressure) |
Mark
See my homepage at http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/
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the_journeyman_au
New Hire
Australia
4 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 03:15:00 AM
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| That is a great looking model. makes the small walthers one I've got look out of place. I am assuming the machinery in front of the ovens is used to push to hot coke out but it is not part of any kit that i have seen. I can sense the kitbash monster is about to be suggested when I ask if there is any one producing it in commerrcial form. |
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 04:49:39 AM
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You're unfortunately right on the mark, J.....the coke pusher was scratchbuilt/kitbashed. To my knowledge, there's no commercially made version out there. The ovens themselves are three of the Walther's kits clones together; along with the fourth one to the left of the coal bunker, this gives Commonwealth an impressive 72 ovens to make coke with, worthy of a fair-sized unit train of coal in and coke out.
Here's a closer view of the pusher, which was based from Mike Rabbit's exceelent drawings and fabricated from scrapbox parts:
http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee289/RBickmore/?albumview=grid&fullsize=Pusher007.jpg |
Edited by - Harsco on 09/21/2008 04:54:12 AM |
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crabster
Engine Wiper
USA
314 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 09:15:07 AM
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| Awesome layout. The Harsco section alone could be a very cool switching layout. You sure struck gold by getting that battery segment! |
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Harsco
Fireman
USA
1101 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 2:49:35 PM
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| Thanks, crabster....it's hard to appreciate how excited I was when I saw it sitting there on the table...I damn near bowled over a few innocent bystanders just to make sure someone didn't snatch it up before I did! As much as it would be fun to scratchbuild the additional sections, it would have been very time consuming to pull off....which means I probably would have put it off for a couple of years. The complex itself has a lot of scratching and bashing left anyway - a caol bunker, conveyors, byproducts processing equipment, tanks, pipelines, etc.... |
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Harrisburg Terminal Railroad (HTRR)
