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jaynjay
Fireman
USA
4390 Posts |
 Posted - 10/08/2005 : 6:40:08 PM
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DISCLAIMER: I am NOT electrically inclined
I am building the layout featured in Kalmbach's book "the Pennsy Middle Division in HO Scale" The book shows a a wiring diagram for dual cabs using s.p.s.t. and d.p.s.t. switches for blocks and reverse loops. Also switches to turn on either or both cabs.
Is my understanding correct that you wire the layout basically the same as featured in a published trackplan only adding a isolated test track.
You still use blocks with DCC, I realize that you shouldn't wire the entire layout without some blocks but do I use them all and wire in a control panel as shown in the book? |
John |
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bpate
Fireman
Australia
3090 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 04:50:20 AM
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Hi jaynjay, I started out with DCC so can't really help with your question but have one of my own, which is why do you need blocks if it will be DCC? My understanding was that blocks were not needed with DCC.
Good luck with the conversion. |
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bpate
Fireman
Australia
3090 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 04:50:20 AM
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Hi jaynjay, I started out with DCC so can't really help with your question but have one of my own, which is why do you need blocks if it will be DCC? My understanding was that blocks were not needed with DCC.
Good luck with the conversion. |
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jaynjay
Fireman
USA
4390 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 06:17:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bpate
why do you need blocks if it will be DCC? My understanding was that blocks were not needed with DCC.
Good luck with the conversion.
That is my question. Do I need all the blocks shown in a ppublished trackplan? Or do you use blocks at all.
There are no hobbyshops within 50 miles from me and I really don't know who to turn to on basic questions |
John |
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jaynjay
Fireman
USA
4390 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 06:17:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bpate
why do you need blocks if it will be DCC? My understanding was that blocks were not needed with DCC.
Good luck with the conversion.
That is my question. Do I need all the blocks shown in a ppublished trackplan? Or do you use blocks at all.
There are no hobbyshops within 50 miles from me and I really don't know who to turn to on basic questions |
John |
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jerryglow
Engine Wiper
309 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 08:45:55 AM
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I would disregard all references to the DC wiring and just set it up for DCC (assuming you are not going "dual"). You don't need all the blocks typical in a DC layout but you should isolate it into some manageable sections for troubleshooting and other purposes. I tried to estimate loads and activity on area of my layout and isolated them and wired them thru electronic circuit breakers (Tony's in my case). You also must wire the reversing sections thru an auto switch (another Tony's item in my case). You can actually wire this thru a DPDT switch like DC but it's clumsey and unnecessay considering the relatively low prices (and excellent performance) of the autoswitches.
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Edited by - jerryglow on 10/09/2005 08:46:32 AM |
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jerryglow
Engine Wiper
309 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 08:45:55 AM
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I would disregard all references to the DC wiring and just set it up for DCC (assuming you are not going "dual"). You don't need all the blocks typical in a DC layout but you should isolate it into some manageable sections for troubleshooting and other purposes. I tried to estimate loads and activity on area of my layout and isolated them and wired them thru electronic circuit breakers (Tony's in my case). You also must wire the reversing sections thru an auto switch (another Tony's item in my case). You can actually wire this thru a DPDT switch like DC but it's clumsey and unnecessay considering the relatively low prices (and excellent performance) of the autoswitches.
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Edited by - jerryglow on 10/09/2005 08:46:32 AM |
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MP Rich
Fireman
USA
1762 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 09:37:49 AM
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| I would certainly not go for all the blocks shown. One of the great things about DCC is that is simple to wire compared to DC. The only reason for blocks is to break a really large layout into sections if it is so large that one power supply cannot feed the whole or if you do want to break it down for troubleshooting purposes. If you will need it broken into sections will depend on size of layout, type of DCC and it's performance, and how many people will be operating what number of engines at the same time. For physical size most do not have the space to build a layout too large for one DCC if wiring is done correctly. More than say 25X50 might be a question. For trouble shooting it involves how complex the trackage is as well as how many will be operating. Also the factor of how well the layout is built and wired comes into play. If you wire it well so that that source of trouble is out and someone is watching each engine that might run afoul and cause a short, perhaps trouble will not be hard to find anyway. Good habits will help. Like don't lay metal objects near the tracks so that they can cause a short! As a layout with no more than three operators all watching their trains, I find little need for trouble shooting. If you will have lots of operators, running lots of trains out of sight with maybe some hidden staging there may be more trouble shooting needed. More sections so that one can shut down the right while the left continues to operate type thing. I would never go back to a control panel but that is just a personal preference thing. I prefer waking with the train, watching and working as I go. Hope this is some help. |
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MP Rich
Fireman
USA
1762 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 09:37:49 AM
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| I would certainly not go for all the blocks shown. One of the great things about DCC is that is simple to wire compared to DC. The only reason for blocks is to break a really large layout into sections if it is so large that one power supply cannot feed the whole or if you do want to break it down for troubleshooting purposes. If you will need it broken into sections will depend on size of layout, type of DCC and it's performance, and how many people will be operating what number of engines at the same time. For physical size most do not have the space to build a layout too large for one DCC if wiring is done correctly. More than say 25X50 might be a question. For trouble shooting it involves how complex the trackage is as well as how many will be operating. Also the factor of how well the layout is built and wired comes into play. If you wire it well so that that source of trouble is out and someone is watching each engine that might run afoul and cause a short, perhaps trouble will not be hard to find anyway. Good habits will help. Like don't lay metal objects near the tracks so that they can cause a short! As a layout with no more than three operators all watching their trains, I find little need for trouble shooting. If you will have lots of operators, running lots of trains out of sight with maybe some hidden staging there may be more trouble shooting needed. More sections so that one can shut down the right while the left continues to operate type thing. I would never go back to a control panel but that is just a personal preference thing. I prefer waking with the train, watching and working as I go. Hope this is some help. |
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jerryglow
Engine Wiper
309 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 11:22:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by MP Rich
I would never go back to a control panel but that is just a personal preference thing. I prefer waking with the train, watching and working as I go. Hope this is some help.
I used to call them "sky boxes" esp on some club layouts I've see where they actually were elevated...
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jerryglow
Engine Wiper
309 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 11:22:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by MP Rich
I would never go back to a control panel but that is just a personal preference thing. I prefer waking with the train, watching and working as I go. Hope this is some help.
I used to call them "sky boxes" esp on some club layouts I've see where they actually were elevated...
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On30fan
Crew Chief
USA
506 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 11:27:42 AM
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Good advice so far. If I remeber this plan correctly, you will need at least 2 blocks. 1 for the 'regular' track and 1 for the reversing loop.
Each reversing section should be it's own block, but that depends on how many trains you run on the layout at once. There are automatic reversing units on the market that will handle the polarity issue for you, so you don't have to worry about the DPDT's either.
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Cheers,
Steve
San Juan Lumber Company
Niagara Frontier Traction Company |
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On30fan
Crew Chief
USA
506 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 11:27:42 AM
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Good advice so far. If I remeber this plan correctly, you will need at least 2 blocks. 1 for the 'regular' track and 1 for the reversing loop.
Each reversing section should be it's own block, but that depends on how many trains you run on the layout at once. There are automatic reversing units on the market that will handle the polarity issue for you, so you don't have to worry about the DPDT's either.
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Cheers,
Steve
San Juan Lumber Company
Niagara Frontier Traction Company |
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Eddie Landreth
Fireman
USA
2714 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 11:55:44 AM
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| I agree with everything that's been said as well. Really, unless you have a really large layout, the only need for more than one block would be if you have reversing loops. In it's simplest form, DCC is wired as a single block, since there's no need to isolate multiple locos on the layout from each other. My layout is 11' x 29' and it is all one big block, no control panel whatsoever. I really like the simplicity of having a throttle that controls the whole shebang. |
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Eddie Landreth
Fireman
USA
2714 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 11:55:44 AM
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| I agree with everything that's been said as well. Really, unless you have a really large layout, the only need for more than one block would be if you have reversing loops. In it's simplest form, DCC is wired as a single block, since there's no need to isolate multiple locos on the layout from each other. My layout is 11' x 29' and it is all one big block, no control panel whatsoever. I really like the simplicity of having a throttle that controls the whole shebang. |
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jaynjay
Fireman
USA
4390 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 2:06:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by On30fan
Good advice so far. If I remeber this plan correctly, you will need at least 2 blocks. 1 for the 'regular' track and 1 for the reversing loop.
Each reversing section should be it's own block, but that depends on how many trains you run on the layout at once. There are automatic reversing units on the market that will handle the polarity issue for you, so you don't have to worry about the DPDT's either.
Thanks everyone for the advice. The track plan has two reverse loops, will one automatic reversing unit handle both or do you need one for each loop? |
John |
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